upgrade to v6 brakes or not?

[belly257]

as title really, had a c20xe nova running 2.0 16v front brakes with astra gte 16v rear brakes (discs) stopped very good, now ive got a near 300bhp c20let in it, and i have some calibra v6 brakes hanging about now is it worth upgradeing or not? ive heard of a few people have a few problems with v6 brakes, ie spongy brake pedal, anyone shead some ligh on the subject?

[Nova_Tek]

Are you using the original Nova servo?

Some people have said that the 16v brakes are good for around 200bhp.

If you are running that much power then I'd personally go for V6 stoppers and an uprated servo too just to make sure. All that power has to be tamed.

Whats the stopping power like with your current set up? as I will be running a standard LET soon and have 16v bits on.

[craig green]

The Cav /Calibra V6 calipers have a slightly smaller slave cylinder than the Vectra (288) V6 calipers. So you have the better of the 2 types to start with.

With 300bhp though I bet you need to upgrade from the 16v stuff. I had 180bhp in mine & used to fade the feck out of my 16v ones.

V6 shoud be better but ultimately I reckon you ought to investigate a 22mm master cylinder from a Cav or Astra to really get the best out of proper fluid & pads etc.

[belly257]

Are you using the original Nova servo?

Some people have said that the 16v brakes are good for around 200bhp.

If you are running that much power then I'd personally go for V6 stoppers and an uprated servo too just to make sure. All that power has to be tamed.

Whats the stopping power like with your current set up? as I will be running a standard LET soon and have 16v bits on.

the stopping power with my current set up was immense, i could stop really quickly when needed, but as said i will be running nearly twice the power

[belly257]

The Cav /Calibra V6 calipers have a slightly smaller slave cylinder than the Vectra (288) V6 calipers. So you have the better of the 2 types to start with.

With 300bhp though I bet you need to upgrade from the 16v stuff. I had 180bhp in mine & used to fade the feck out of my 16v ones.

V6 shoud be better but ultimately I reckon you ought to investigate a 22mm master cylinder from a Cav or Astra to really get the best out of proper fluid & pads etc.

will a cav or astra master cylinder fit straight on?, i have just the normal 1.2 nova cylinder and servo, seems like i have good stopping power

[Nova_Tek]

the stopping power with my current set up was immense, i could stop really quickly when needed, but as said i will be running nearly twice the power

Wow 300bhp on 16v and it stopped nice. Thats good to hear.

Should be ok with 200bhp then :) bet barake fade was crazy with that sorta power.

[belly257]

Wow 300bhp on 16v and it stopped nice. Thats good to hear.

Should be ok with 200bhp then :) bet barake fade was crazy with that sorta power.

i havent actually had the car out with the 300bhp let in yet, but the stopping power was good on my c20xe nova, was abit of brake fade at high speed, but rear discs helped loads

[GRUNT 16V]

Standard 16v stuff on a valver sucks balls as my disc cracked after a few hard driving sessions then upgraded to v6 bits n bobs and had no trouble !! . I was running a rear disc set up v6 up front braided lines dot 5.1 fluid a gte servo and 3/25 rear compensators and i adjusted the 15mm nut on the brake pedal ,this set up worked wonders and got me out of a few brown pant moments

[Adam]

Rear discs dont do anything, as there bias valved down to stop them braking hard.

Whats your use of the car? With a let id go v6/turbo brakes, or 4pots if you have the £££

[Stuart]

engine power has absoutely **** all to do with stopping power requirements aslong as you can lock up the wheels then you have enough braking force..... its the heat thats is then the issue.

pads and good fluid are the key!! I run el cheapo nasty brake discs with some rather vicious spec pads with ATE Super Blue brake fluid and never had a single spot of bother when abusing the brakes.

Also the Servo has **** all to do with braking POWER... its like power steering, it wont make you stop faster but you can put less force on the pedal making you "think" its doing more.

I really need to get the brakes article finished lol

[Adam]

engine power has absoutely **** all to do with stopping power requirements
Yes but say on a track car, more power means you can pickup more speed on the straights etc, meaning your braking down from high speeds more often......

[Stuart]

talk about miss off the other part of the quote :p

aslong as you can lock the wheels you have enough power, it then becomes a heat capacity issue. As stated in the REST of that post

[GRUNT 16V]

i noticed a differance with a bigger servo!!

[belly257]

Rear discs dont do anything, as there bias valved down to stop them braking hard.

Whats your use of the car? With a let id go v6/turbo brakes, or 4pots if you have the £££

i have a bias valve on the car to stop the back locking up before the front, and i wondent say rear disc "don't do anything" as when i upgraded to these my braking power was increased, its just going to be used for fast road use maybe an odd track day

[Adam]

i noticed a differance with a bigger servo!!
The difference you noticed is that the brakes work "easier", they dont stop better :thumb:

[Stuart]

i noticed a differance with a bigger servo!!
bet your stopping distances didnt change.


assumed numbers...
with servo 1 you have to go full travel to get the assitance to push the M/C in enough to lock the brakes.
Servo 2 you only go half travel to get to the same locking travel/pressure... this will then make you think its more stopping power, when in reality its all down to the M/C bore size.


how the hell do you think the Elise stops with NO servo? lol

[belly257]

engine power has absoutely **** all to do with stopping power requirements aslong as you can lock up the wheels then you have enough braking force..... its the heat thats is then the issue.

pads and good fluid are the key!! I run el cheapo nasty brake discs with some rather vicious spec pads with ATE Super Blue brake fluid and never had a single spot of bother when abusing the brakes.

Also the Servo has **** all to do with braking POWER... its like power steering, it wont make you stop faster but you can put less force on the pedal making you "think" its doing more.

I really need to get the brakes article finished lol

i can lock up the wheels if i slam on really hard, i just thought id post the thread to see if the v6 brakes wer worth putting on as i have them, i mite just upgrad to red stuff pads all round and sum better fluid?

[Stuart]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not EBC!!!!

Mintex M1144 for road and light track, or M1155 for keener track use (and they last 3 times longer too). And the only fluid I recomend now is ATE Super Blue from k300 performance (google).

[belly257]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not EBC!!!!

Mintex M1144 for road and light track, or M1155 for keener track use (and they last 3 times longer too). And the only fluid I recomend now is ATE Super Blue from k300 performance (google).

ok mate already finding some of them mintex pads you recomend, they good yes? so what would you suggest keep ate 16v calipers and discs and get them mintex pads and brake fluid, or the same but with v6 fron brakes?

[sparkie1401]

belly257 do you have a pedal box set up? what bias valve have u used for your rear disc set up?

[belly257]

belly257 do you have a pedal box set up? what bias valve have u used for your rear disc set up?

nope no pedal box, just got a wilwood bias vlave under my bonnet linked into mt rear brake lines, works a treat

[Jack]

i mite just upgrad to red stuff pads all round and sum better fluid?
Redstuff are track compound pads and will be next to useless on road. I run yellowstuff on the celica and they're ace, warm up quick but don't fade under hard braking. Thats on a 1400kg 4wd car though lol

[Stuart]

EBC's are great on mountain bikes and heavy cars (My greenstuffs were great on the Omega 1.6Ton but crap on the VX 800Kg skip).

Track spec pads arent as bad as everyone makes out for road use. Ok they need a little heat to get them working, but they are no worse than OEM brakes when cold... no big deal there imho. Plus track pads last fooking ages compared to fast road pads lol.

Personally I'd stick with 16V stuff, new pads and ATE fluid (preferably new discs, mintex normal discs are good, no need for grooves etc) and see how you go. If its still faedy then go for the V6 stuff (smaller piston versions) to get the bigger pad size etc and sell on the 16v stuff.

[belly257]

EBC's are great on mountain bikes and heavy cars (My greenstuffs were great on the Omega 1.6Ton but crap on the VX 800Kg skip).

Track spec pads arent as bad as everyone makes out for road use. Ok they need a little heat to get them working, but they are no worse than OEM brakes when cold... no big deal there imho. Plus track pads last fooking ages compared to fast road pads lol.

Personally I'd stick with 16V stuff, new pads and ATE fluid (preferably new discs, mintex normal discs are good, no need for grooves etc) and see how you go. If its still faedy then go for the V6 stuff (smaller piston versions) to get the bigger pad size etc and sell on the 16v stuff.

ok mate well i will wear what pad life i have left in these that are on the car, and then see how i get on and then if i need to will upgrade to v6 brakes and some decent discs and pads, ive got the calibra v6 ones? are they the smaller piston ones i think they are?