Which BIG brakes???????

[sparkie1401]

can some one please help?

which is easier/best?

V6 vectra discs re drilled or Fiat coupe discs?

do the fiat discs fit correctly to the nova hub and only need the bolt hole re drilling?

please help as i dont want 256mm 16 discs

[loggyboy]

What engine/tune/spec etc.

[BIGS]

is there a reason why you dont want 256mm ones? they are probley better the 288mm ones because the 256 ones will work better with the nova servo then v6 ones. with the v6 your more then likely lock up all the time.

[craig green]

with the v6 your more then likely lock up all the time.

Incorrect. More than likely suffer a slightly softer pedal feel due to the slave cylinder (in the calipers) being larger than ideal for the master cylinder (20mm on a Nova - 22mm on any donor car)

Brakes will come down to wheel size, your budget & how/where you use the car.

Proper decent pads w/16v type discs/calipers are the best place to start unless you have over 200bhp IMO.

[BIGS]

oh i got told the v6 will always lock up? but will they work well with a corsa gsi servo?

[sparkie1401]

What engine/tune/spec etc.

2.0 16 C20 XE engine, early dizzy type

re mapped ecu, power cap and lightened an balancedc fly wheel

[loggyboy]

256mm will be more than fine, if you want a better feel go for braded lines, top quality fluid and maybe uprated pads and or drilled discs.

I had 288mm on my SRi for while, all beit very good (with no mods to servo/MC), they were heavy heavy feckers.

Do you plan on doing trackdays/motorsport?

[sparkie1401]

hi craig

im running 16" speedline alessio 2 wheels, budget is not that important and its just to use every day

wanted v6 cos bigger is better and ive heard these will be ok with rear discs and 256mm arent?

where does the truth lie?

i assume if the 256 work better with the nova servo then 4pots arent a great idea?

[sparkie1401]

ive got 8 groove brembo 256 discs braided hoses will be going on andwill prob go for EBC greenstuff or Ferodo DS2500 pads

all the drums and shoes will be new and the fluid ill uuse is RBF 600 which ive recently put in my evo 6

[loggyboy]

There is no issues with any brakes and rear discs, but you will need to add something to balance the brakes, or the rears will lock all the time. To be fair I still fail to see the point in changing from drums on rear, they are more than adequate for a light (front weight biased) hatch like an XE'd nova with uprated front brakes.

With the spec youve quoted above I cant see any need for a change, why do you want to?

[sparkie1401]

just normal road use, i would like rear discs simply for the look and surely they work better?

i was thinking off bolting a tigra rear compensator valve onto the nova axle to stop them locking up but am unsure if this is worth doing?

[sparkie1401]

the reason i ask is ive been looking at the articles section where there are right ups and top tips for everythin u need to know but the fiat coupe brakes wasnt clear

i understand making the bolt holes a bit bigger but whats with the spiggot ring when the pic looks like the discs already fits perfectly onto the nova hub flange???????

256 is easier and should be good i did have them on a 1400cc nova years ago and they wrere brill, but sure bigger is bettere looks bette blah blah blah.............................................. ..................

[loggyboy]

Yes rears will work 'better', but better is not a mixed word for brakes.
With brakes (especially rear) you want balance, and too much rear braking is v.bad, it leads to unstable hard braking.
I can understand you would like to upgrade the fronts, but if you not experiencing brake fade, or lack of braking ability then you may be wasting money.

I work to the priciple of, can you lock up the brakes easily? if yes then your brakes are good (or your tyres are ****), if no then upgrade. 90% of the time, Braking 'power' is limited by grip on the wheel.
The only other reason to upgrade is due to brake fade, ie if you cooking your brakes because your using them alot, like you would if you were on track, then yes bigger IS better as bigger gives not only more force, meaning you can use them less, but they cool quicker too. but at the same time they can be upgraded without the need for being big (ie pipes, discs, pads etc) but it seems youve done this already.

[sparkie1401]

basically my car has been off the road since may 2003 and i just wanna enjoy it hence im finishing it asap

so on its maiden c20xe voyage everything is new

uprated bushed
braided hoses new discs, pads and fluid
new shoes and drums

but i dont wanna put 256 on cook em, then try V6 288

and tyres will be new and i like posh tyres because brakes and tyres are probably most important, will likely be goodyear eagle F1's or TOYO proxes T1R's

been to 2 engineers who are both reluctant to re drill the V^ discs and im not paying £170 from Courtenay

hence the Fiat coupe discs as an option, already 4 stud, just not sure about the offset and this spiggot ring thingy?

[sparkie1401]

my car will never be more than 170 - 180 BHP so is it just best to leave 256 mm on?

would really prefer 288/284 discs because ive heard discs will not lock up with this set up but im not so sure?

id like some fiat discs info and is the tigra compensator a worth while idea?

[Welsh Dan]

Proxes arent posh tyres lol, go for the F1's.

Fiat coupe discs are 4x98 PCD so the stud holes might need elongating slightly, they fit the calipers fine, and the spigot ring only usually helps when you're fitting them on.

The 284mm "turbo" setup might be better, because the pistons in the calipers are the same size as the ones in the 256mm setup, so will give a firmer pedal feel.

[Stoo]

mate
seriously
just use the 256

more than adequate!!!

if you dont think so after usig them, then upgrade!

[sparkie1401]

cheers Stoo

ok will try the 256mm, just doesnt help when ur spoilt 4 choice

sorry about startin a new post only no one was really answering the fiat question
and i dont use forums that often so im not even sure how to use the search thread yet

cheers though

[loggyboy]

Been to 2 engineers who are both reluctant to re drill the V^ discs and im not paying £170 from Courtenay

They dont need to be reluctant, just give em cash to do it and there is no problems, as long as they dont fit them to the car, as far as they are concerened they have just drilled 8 holes in 2 bits of metal, doesnt matter what they are.

Mine were done by a eng shop, with No Qs ask, he extended one existing hole and redrilled the other 3 so there were the least amount of addtional holes possible (on my request).

[Stoo]

the easiest way to do the fiat conversion, is to drill the discs pcd out eevr so slightly

its also easier to run stud/nut conversion instead of wheel bolts
as the centre bore is bigger on the fiat discs

i believe you also have to space the caliper by a couple of mm too

washers should sort that

[loggyboy]

cheers Stoo

ok will try the 256mm, just doesnt help when ur spoilt 4 choice

sorry about startin a new post only no one was really answering the fiat question
and i dont use forums that often so im not even sure how to use the search thread yet

cheers though

You learn fast :P

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98737&highlight=fiat

[sparkie1401]

def dont learn fast LOL but im reading all the fiat stuff now, its all more ****ing about than its worth as appossed to using 256

[sparkie1401]

whats anyones view on 4 pots from someone like Hi-spec or the ap racing kit from reyland motorsport?

[BIGS]

whats anyones view on 4 pots from someone like Hi-spec or the ap racing kit from reyland motorsport?

whats the point, the lads have already said to use the 256mm disks so use them. getting any 4 pots will be a overkill for you!

[loggyboy]

I'd only bother with 4 pots and higher spec if you plan on track days or you cane around your local roads like a joy rider and plan on cooking ur brakes alot.

The £500+ you gonna spend on them would go along way to a engine, suspension or other more uselful mods.

[craig green]

hi craig

im running 16" speedline alessio 2 wheels, budget is not that important and its just to use every day

wanted v6 cos bigger is better and ive heard these will be ok with rear discs and 256mm arent?

where does the truth lie?

i assume if the 256 work better with the nova servo then 4pots arent a great idea?

The servo has feck all to do with it. From a cost point of view, Vectra V6 (288's) are worth considering & I have just fitted my GSi up with them & 16v type rear discs. The Vectra V6 pads & discs can be got from Vauxhall at a cost of £50 on the trade card prices.

Rear discs tend to overbrake as the bias from the std M/C is setup to send a lot of pressure to the inefficient rear drums. Plumb in the calipers instead & that pressure bias is a little too high as the caliper/discs combo is more effective. I have to agree that the disc conversion on the rear is overkill & unnecessary tbh. But I wanted it for looks & ease of maintainance.

4 pots & such billet calipers are fine with the std setup usually.
Just bear in mind that if the brakes are too large (eg 6 pot calipers with 330mm discs etc) you may struggle to get enough heat into them for them to operate & thus the car will feel overbraked.

The comments about braided flexi's, proper track car brake fluid & decent pads can't be enforced enough tbh.

[Jack]

I had 288mm on my SRi for while, all beit very good (with no mods to servo/MC), they were heavy heavy feckers.
Same here. My 284 Fiat discs with V6 calipers are very heavy brakes, require a bit of effort to use effectively, BUT having said that my servo has a slight vacuum leak so isn't as efficient as it should be. I've never had any issues with it locking up, although I could make the wheels stop dead if I wanted to.


i understand making the bolt holes a bit bigger but whats with the spiggot ring when the pic looks like the discs already fits perfectly onto the nova hub flange???????
No, they don't. The centre bore of the Fiat discs is slightly too big for the Nova hub, hence needing a spigot ring to centre them properly. I drilled the holes out by approx 1mm each and they fit fine.

You can see the gap in this picture - bear in mind the disc isn't bolted in yet, so its not an even gap all the way round.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a266/razorjack/Cars/Project%20Ghey/24072008562.jpg


i believe you also have to space the caliper by a couple of mm too
Calipers on mine fit fine, late spec Calibra V6 calipers.

[Jonlem]

For what you need as already said a trillion times stick with the 256 setup.

With the right pads they will be more than adequate at stopping the car in most situations.

The 288mm v6 setup is very good but does suffer slightly from more than normal pedal travel, they DO work very well though, even on stock discs and pads they would hold up to 10 laps of Donny before they set on fire (or there abouts) I have used Yellowstuff and DS2500 with the V6 setup and they will stop any nova without any fade ANYTIME, infact my mates 300hp Astra runs the same setup he has no issues whatsoever.

Since then I have used the Reyland conversion and it IS superb, however the downside is that you need 16" wheels min unless your willing to alter to the calipers and discs which tbh is a lot of work for feck all gains.

Its all about what you want to do with the car, if your going no bigger than 15" alloys then you have 2 choices.

As mentioned the rear discs are not needed

I have a V6 setup with discs, calipers and yellowstuff pads if you need some ? I also have 16v kits laying about, drop me a PM if you definately interested

[sparkie1401]

so does anyone do spiggot rings 4 the fiat discs? cos this seems the best option other than 256

every one keeps saying 256 and i do get it but i will more than likely want rear discs which i already have a axle built up but not on yet

also my calipers are year 2000 vectra 2.0 calipers which were 288 5 stud do i need to swap these 4 cav V6 or calibre turbo units?

[sparkie1401]

craig

how are you finding the v6 brakes and rear 16v discs?

this is the combo id like most, followed by 256 with drums

did you drill ur own discs or buy em done?
if so where from?

[Jack]

I'd have thought Vectra calipers should be ok, if they're the sliding type...

TBH I wouldn't be too worried about spigot rings. I don't run them and have no problems aside from being a bit tricky when removing/refitting wheels. My holes are drilled spot on though and hole the disc nice and central when the bolts are in.

Would the rear discs not lock up more with 288/284 brakes on the front rather than 256's?