crank pulley

[paul james]

A few days ago I changed the water pump and timing belt on my 1.3. But its been making horrible sounding noises since, I'm really hoping its not a valve out of position as I really don't feel like taking the engine apart. So I'm looking at Mr Pulley and seeing if he is to blame.

The crank pulley (the lower one) can only be put on the crank sprocket in one place, as it has a 'key' position. Should the pulley be tight on this key? as theres quite a bit of movement on mine (with the bolt removed). I can turn it a few mm, seems to me it should not be able to move like this, because how are you suppoed to have the timing accurate if it does?. There also seems to be a small bit of damage on the pulley on the 'key' section.

Is it safe for me to try starting up the car without the crank pulley and its bolt in place? So I can tell wether its the source of the noise or not. Or does the pulley prevent the timing belt from flying off? and is the crank sprocket actually held on with the pulley bolt?

[Adam]

The pully stops the belt/sprocket from flying off, so DONT do that lol
It should be tight on the key yeah.

There should be a small arrow on the sprocket, which points to a cutout on the oil pump

[paul james]

I'm glad I asked and didn't just try firing it up without the pulley on then! seems I do have some sense after all.

Heres some pics:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.james21/pulley1.jpg

you can see theres a couple of mm gap between the two ket sections. Which equates to even more apparant movement of the timing marker as its on the outside edge of the pulley.


http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.james21/sr/pulley2.jpg

Crap pic, but you can just kind of see where the metal had indented on the left of the key part of the pulley, presumeably because its been jumping around when the car has been going.


So is this likely to be the culprit of the nasty knocking sounds? Should I replace both the pulley and the crank sprocket? If both is the sprocket easy to remove and change?
Oh and am I likely to be able to get these as new parts?

[paul james]

bump - can anyone answer the questions in the post above? really want to get this sorted

[SKoob]

Try a different pulley to see if it fits better and see how you get on, could be the belt making the noise if its too slack

[paul james]

Just tried the local motor factors, they can't get a new pulley, or sprocket for that matter. Looks like I'm going to have to go second hand. The 1.2 engine uses the same sprocket and pulley right?

Can anyone supply me with both parts? ideally I could collect if not too far. Help I don't want to be walking the several miles to work next week!

[Welsh Dan]

Put the pulley back on, but leave off the alternator belt, remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over with a ratchet on the bolt that holds that pulley on, does it turn over smoothly by hand?

[mowgli]

the timing mark 'play' on the crank pulley in relation to the cam belt tooths shouldn't be a problem. the pulley is a stamped item & is not that well made.
line the timing marks up & see if it has slipped a tooth. I had one do it years ago, & it sounded terrible.
I also had a cambelt strip at 85ish & didn't bend any valves.
take the plugs out & put a length of rigid wire into no.1 cylinder (pulley end) and turn the crank till it is top dead centre, & check the timing mark on the pulley. they should line up ok

[paul james]

the timing mark 'play' on the crank pulley in relation to the cam belt tooths shouldn't be a problem. the pulley is a stamped item & is not that well made.
line the timing marks up & see if it has slipped a tooth. I had one do it years ago, & it sounded terrible.


Thats the thing though, the few mm of play at the key part of the pulley means a good cm or so of movement of the timing mark on the edge of it. So how do I know when the timing mark is at the right place when the pulley can move away from it so much?

[Welsh Dan]

Thats the thing though, the few mm of play at the key part of the pulley means a good cm or so of movement of the timing mark on the edge of it. So how do I know when the timing mark is at the right place when the pulley can move away from it so much?


take the plugs out & put a length of rigid wire into no.1 cylinder (pulley end) and turn the crank till it is top dead centre, & check the timing mark on the pulley. they should line up ok

;).

[paul james]

take the plugs out & put a length of rigid wire into no.1 cylinder (pulley end) and turn the crank till it is top dead centre, & check the timing mark on the pulley. they should line up ok


could you elaborate on that? I'm confused! top centre?

Having so much movement on the timing mark on the pulley just doesn't seem right to me at all.

[Welsh Dan]

Right, take the spark plugs out, then put something rigid into the spark plug hole of cylinder number one. Turn the engine over by hand until piston number one (furthest from the gearbox) is at its highest point, you can tell this by watching the rod move, but don't let the rod jam. When the engine is at TDC (when the timing marks would line up), piston number one is at its highest point.

[paul james]

I've been taking the distributer cap off and seeing if the rotar arm is by the first cylinder spark plug lead.

Perhaps I'm not explaining this well, but because the pulley is so loose on the crank sprocket, it moves away from the timing mark easily - this is when its fully bolted on.

Anyway, I want to rule it out by getting a new pulley and sprocket. Can anyone tell me if the 1.3 items are also used on the 1.2 and other nova engines, or are they specific to the 1.3?

[Adam]

Any nova ohc bottom pully should fit. Altho some of the later spi ones have different marks on them.

[paul james]

Ok, what about the sprocket, is that the same between models also? (is it just the cam pulley size thats the reason for different timing belts between engine models)

I think that if the pulley has become worn so has the sprocket. And I'm hoping someone has a common unwanted 1.2 engine lying around they can take a nice tightly fiitting set up from for me...

[Adam]

No, the teeth are a different shape on some.

Does the key on the sprocket look worn??

[ck]

do you have the proper washer on the crank bolt?

having that little bit of play in the key on the pulley should not matter at all providing the main cam belt pulley is tight on the crank with no play (under the alternator pulley)

you can forget about the timing mark on that pulley anyway, it shoudl never really be used except for when using a timing light.

you want to make sure the pulley under neath lines up with its timing marks and so does the came pulley.

if this is all good then with the correct washer on the crank bolt it should hold the pulley on tight. if you have the correct washer it might be the wrong way around

[paul james]

The sprocket does have some wear, but how much its hard for me to tell without another one to compare it too or unworn pulley to put on.

The pulley also doesn't sit that flush against the sprocket either, I can wobble it around a bit as well as turning it.



you want to make sure the pulley under neath lines up with its timing marks and so does the came pulley
The crank sprocket also has a timing mark? I didn't notice one.

I'm using the washer that was on the pulley to start with - before I changed the belt and water pump and these noises appeared.

[ck]

ill pop into my garage and pull the pulley off my sport engine and take a pic for u mate.

[Adam]

Yeah, as said yesterday the sprocket should have a arrow in it.
Mine always have

[ck]

is the washer fitted the correct way around? it has an indent in the centre of one side. the side with the indent in the centre goes to the engine side.

[paul james]

No a simple washer couldn't result in the sort of terrible engine death noises its been making. OH YES IT COULD! just turned it around, and hoorah its sounding much healthier! I was convinced that the outward indentation on the washer should go in towards the engine. But after you suggested it ck I had a look, and noticed that side of the washer is all grubby, the side thats been exposed to the elements for years not the side thats been sitting happily against the pulley, man I can be so dumb sometimes.

Thanks for all the help guys, its very much appreciated. Infact as a sort of thank you, I shall stump up the cash to be a proper member.