LEGAL ADVICE WANTED PLEASE

[carltoncrazy]

yep ive lost my temper again,oh $hit.
cut a long story short,
17 yr old shunted my car up that back side(mines a j reg carlton GSI 3k 24v) now it did hardly any damage,reck a bumper and a light and the odd scatch,but nothing major,
so understanble i was right pissed a bout this,
ok im 6,2 and built like a rugby player.so i got outa my car n was quite calm,jus thought "get his details and leave it to the insurance".
he had other plans.looked at me ,wheel span backwards and leg it,
ok lets b honest,1.0 metro.
3.0 striaght 6 vaux
yep i caught him,cut him up got out n,calmly and it was clamly said please can ya give me ya detals and il turn a blind eye to that(which i would of).
he got out with a base ball bat(personal thought,SHIT)
he swung missed i kiccked him in da balls............and well pinned him to his car and kinda broke his arm.ok this aint good i know.
once i relise what i done i called an amblance,they sed the old bill would have to come,
so basical ,l8rz boys, i chipped,
the only problem is i am "known" to the cops,and he identfyed me,
so to cops come round to my place(1 was like 25 female and serious fit),
and i gave them my opion,however they did catch me at 8:30 at night,and recently coz of shit i have been drinking...................a fair bit
so ive been told to appear at the station in 7 days time,
now i am gonna get a lawer,
but what charges am i facing here?
what would u lot do if u were me,al im gonna say was,it was me my fault etc,but its caught on cctv him speeding off,
help!

[?Marty?]

You're in quite a lot of bother pal.

1st of all you should not have chased him. You had to get his reg number and report him to the police as a hit and run.
Still, you chasing after him could be seen as an attemp to make a citizens arrest, as once he decided to 'run' it became a criminal and not civil matter. The law relating to this is very complicated though.

2nd of all - when he swung at you with the baseball bat, you acted in self defence. However, it depends on whether the court sees you 'breaking his arm' as you using excessive force. If you use excessive force it is no longer self-defence, but turns into assault and battery (ABH/GBH).
This is a matter of evidence (baseball bat? witnesses?) and as to what the court believes to be the point where the risk of harm to you passes and turns into you using excessive force. It is likely that this will be seen as you using excessive force, simply because of the type of injury he has sustained and because of the inequality of power.

You calling an ambulance would go to your favour, but running away before the police arrived definitely doesn't.

If you're lucky (well, it's not really to do with luck, but rather with your previous history, facts of the case and etc), you could get away with a suspended sentence. If not, you might get up to two years imprisonment.

[NovaKilla]

When your banged up, make sure you enrol for some English lessons.

[Alex]

Novakilla go easy he has already told us that he has dislexia (spelling), not his fault.
Hazsr - dunno what to think. I hope it goes well

[Dave_Hay]

NovaKilla Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2002 7:11 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When your banged up, make sure you enrol for some English lessons.


lmfao, sorry but that made me giggle.

to hayzsr, dont look to good for u, you cant proove he hit your car or he drove away from u, but it can be proved after your car was in an accident you chased after another car and broke the drivers arm.

time will tell

[carltoncrazy]

i swear i sed b4,
it was cought on cctv
in reply to the dislexyic comment,i aint botherd ,coz ya new so he wuldnt of known,
no afence taken
tho it was a funny comment

[Davo]

i know it might make matters worse but cant u go round to his house and threaten him to drop the charges lol

[carltoncrazy]

no davo im thinking of that,ive been doing my research and he has a 17 yr old sister(dunno if its step sis or wot)
but i thought if i go n make "close friends" with her,then she`l presuade him to withdraw,
im right pissed off,trust,
he was caught on CCtv legin it

[Ric 16v]

I would have done the same as u if some1 twatted my car !!!!!! for all u know he could have been a joy rider why else would he try to get away ??????

[carltoncrazy]

sri that a brilliant idea,
sweet bruv il say i culdnt c n e keys in the ignortion so asumed he was joy riding or sumfing,
carlton got fixed earlyer,

[locky]

Hayz, if u r bein attacked head on, u can act as self defence as he had a baseball bat, if it gets serious, theyll search his car 4 1,
I thinky marty was on the right tracks tho,
E.G
If a guy breaks into ur house and u hit him from behind, ul get dun 4 it, hit him head-on, u wont, its self defence!
ok u chased him, u may have been goin the same way as him! got out asked 4 details, swung with bat, acted in self defence and hit him in the balls!
Dunno if this is ne help, but good luck neway!

[Chris LR]

If it should ever go to court there gonna see you (rugby player) and the poor innocent young 17 year old, who has a "mad-man" (no offence) chasing him! In his defence he'll say he thought you were going to kill him or something daft like that.


How clear is the cctv? If you don't mind me asking what are you "known" by the police for? I think you can get away with a slap on the wrists, just tell them exactly what happened, after all you were mainly in the right.

[carltoncrazy]

no i dont mind u askin,also the carlton got black alloys and black out windows,probley thought i was a dealer,

1)right got caught doing a tonsumfing at 14 coz sum1 i knew was badly injurgerd and the ablance would of taken ages( the speeding was in a 30).
so that got me 6 mnths ban 3 points and a fine,but 4 sum reason i got my lience 2 months after my 17th so i asumed it was taken on my provisional.

2)tried to kill myself at 16 wen alot ppl round me died,so the cops thought i was a nut job in the head.which i aint,
3) i kept losing my temper with ppl around me,(dan had a taste of that,soz gain bruv)
4)drunk disordly.
5) getting caught wiv my pants down in public(jus dont ask)
oh and recently got sum assault charge which seems to been droped but no1 sed ne fing.

[Chris LR]

I recon that the othet guy or his defence will say something along the lines of....

History of Violence and Genral disregard towards the law/others.

Of course this isn't gonna look good, but.... You did not provoke the other guy to become aggressive, Threaten you and your property and He was the one that Initially broke the law.

I'm sure you've learned from your previous mistakes :wink: and you know that your required to stop after an accident :wink: You also don't carry a weapon in your car :wink: and you were mearly trying to resolve the dispute peacefully until the other guy became aggressive and you had no option but to defend yourself and your property :wink: you also called an ambulance becasue you were "concerned" about the other guys condition.

What can he say to all that? He won't have CCTV to back-up any story he may make up. The camara never lies!!

[carltoncrazy]

r u a lawer or sumfing coz that was brilliant,
soz nicking that excuse

[?Marty?]

By law whether something constitutes self-defence depends on whether there was a risk of harm and the ammount of force used to defend yourself. Even if it is self-defence, if you use excessive force (which is up to the courts discretion) then it is no longer seen as sel-defence. Whether you attack someone from head on or behind is irrelevant.

Under the old law, the other person had to 'get the first punch in', whereas the position now is that there only has to be a risk of harm (which you would have to prove!) and you can act, with reasonable force, in your self-defence.

It's all to do with a balance of power. The other guy could claim he was acting in self-defence, and even though he used a baseball bat, the court mcould still hold that there was a balance of power, or there was a greater amount of power on your side. It's all fucked up, and depends on the opinion of a few old geezers, who think they know everything because they deal with the same cases day in, day out.

The other guy can't claim 'history of violence and general disregard towards the law/others', unless he can show that this was to his knowledge at the time of the incident.
Otherwise this matter will onle be taken into account during sentencing, should you be found guilty of the offence.

There are a matter of facts to consider - is there any evidence of the baseball bat being used, in the event that he claims he did not use one? (witnesses - did any passers by or the ambulance crew witness the event/baseball bat? did the police go and search for one? did they/will they find it?)

Him 'running away' being caught on cctv - do you/the plice have a copy of the footage? It may have been on a loop, and therefore re-recorded over itself. Plus this doesn't necessarily go in your favour, as he could use it himself to show that you chased after him.

What happened after that will be circumstancial evidence - i.e. you claiming one thing, and him claiming another. Unless, of course, in the unlikely event that he admits to the whole event.

At the moment there are only three certainties:

1. Him 'running' away, and you chasing after him. (If the cctv has captured this).

2. The injuries that he has sustained - this will be the main deciding factor in the case, by which it'll be decided whether you acted in self-defence or not.

3. You calling an ambulance - this is the only fact in your favour. it shows compassion/remorse and etc.

[ade]

at the end of the day everyones comments are valid and they are trying to be helpful however if u want my advice -

speak to your lawyer and tell him straight what happened.

Dont arse about making up stories - a decent defense lawyer will see through it.

tell as it was - admit you were wrong to go after him but any sane person in a simiular posn would have done the same - the joy rider bit could be used - you never know - cctv will back you up anyway - as for breaking his arm/ self defense etc was this caught on cctv? for all you know when he swung the bat his arm may have snapped due to excessive swing? he may have brittle bones or summut!

:o :D

His word against yours - you maybe scary but hes on vid running away from an accident hit n run - hes defo gonna get banned! you may get a good fine but thatd be it in my opinion - unless you plead self defense. I think ne1 in that posn would have acted similar.

Human nature

Ade

[?Marty?]

Don't go shagging his sister too mate! You don't want to piss him off more. :lol:

Because he sustained a broken arm, the only way you can 'get away with it' is if he drops the charges against you. Otherwise your fate depends on your lawyers (who will decide on what's the best way to put your case forward in your favour) and the judge(s) (who will decide whether they believe your lawyers and if not, what sentence they deem appropriate).

[carltoncrazy]

shaggin the sister does sound gd tho.
u aint seen her!!!!!FINE.lol
lawer 2day at 4:30

[Chris LR]

The question of reasonable force is very hard but I think it depends on the circumstances.

A. Your being robbed by a guy with a Toothpick, putting him in a wheelchair isn't a good idea

B. Your being robbed by a guy with a gun pointed directly at your haed, putting him in a wheelchair constitutes reasonalble force becasue your own life is in serious danger.

As Marty said it's for the courts to decide, unfortunatly if the people who are deciding have just been cut up by a 6" 2 guy in a carlton they ain't gonna be on your side. Nobody is 100% impartial!!!!!!

[carltoncrazy]

if im bluntly honest i dont think theres many black calrton GSI,running on 19`s in MK,
dont fink ne 1 else is sick enuf to drive 1!!!!!!
so the chances of him getting cut up by anther 1 r slim
but sod law will have it,sum1 will cut him up.
dump my lawer coz he gave me shit advice

[Chris LR]

If his advice is different to mine it may not be sh1t, I'm not qualified in anyway, sorry for not making it clearer, I'm simply going on previous experiences and results (of other people)

[bob]

its up to the la in question how they interpret the law from experience,they all have jobs to do,and all hav ethier own opinions, just be prepared to kiss ass,if it makes u feel any better,Id do the same! the odds look in favour of you,just stand by ur story and you shall be ok, they will question u over everything,and I mean everything!-same as everything in life.put ur story forwards,and see wot happens,if it gets heavy,get even afterwards,dont do it b4 otherwise peeps will think ur lying n trying to bully him!

[carltoncrazy]

chris _sr bruv dont go so defence,i like ur advice,
my lawaer was jus a twat,he nose my past he also knows i have the money,
so im defending myself.
oh belive me 6,2 guy breaking down into tears in court always gets the symthy vote,
not like ive used it b4.
hmmm also a number of novaload members know that im not the easyest of ppl to get on with,
however i fight my corner to the end,
if i get off this that lil brat wont be enjoy the expiences of driving for long

[Chris LR]

I'm just makin it clear that my advice is purely my own, don't come looking for me if things go wrong, which they won't.

[carltoncrazy]

chris chill out i aint gonna blame ya ok,
oh yeh got it rong,dont have the cops next week ive got sum hearing which decides wether it goes further or not

[Chris LR]

Well if I was the other guy I'd prob drop it, he knows that if he pisses you off anymore you'll pay him a visit.

He's also in the shit over driving off from an accident, joy riding or somethin, threatening you with a weapon. I'd pay his lawyer a visit and make a deal, you'll drop it if he will - Everyones a winner!

[?Marty?]

Put a counter-claim of your own in.

[carltoncrazy]

I GOT OFF SCOT FREE,
SPOT FACE GOT HIS LIENCE AND A FINE HA HA
STUPID TWAT!!!!!!
any how many thxs 2 chris_sr i used his comment,tho slightly change to suit a court,but it worked wounders,got me off.
i also sed he swung 2 hard n damage it himself(thxs ade)
THANK YOU NOVA LOAD,
IL CHANGE HONEST. :lol:

[MattyWoo]

Well have u learnt your lesson?? i dont mean to sound like a dick but if you do it again u might not be so lucky next time!!

[carltoncrazy]

me learn,dont b silly.
u live 1once live proper,
no next time il break his neck not the arm, :lol:
got in wiv the sis tho,hes steaming about it

[?Marty?]

That's why i have others to do my 'dirty work' for me :wink: .

I'd shag his sister wearing his foreskin as a condom. Up her arse.