Power figures - kW???

[rubachuk]

Took my car over to Pro-tec Motorsport this morning for a tune. (1.3 on twin 40s, AST2 cam, modded head, manifold and full system)

I spoke to the guy after he'd done it and he said it was runing well and had 88 at the fly and about 76 at the wheels, he didn't say what units though (I really should have asked obviously). I've had a quick look on the net and it seems to me as though he may have quoted me a kW figure, which would give me 118bhp and 101bhp at the wheels which is at the top end of what I hoped for.

Does this sound right to you guys?

[C14se]

i have never head of one (kW figure) lol

[NovaBoi92]

76 kw = 101bhp so sounds right, and if you have twin 40's etc on it, the bhp wouldnt be as low as 76

[Pistol Pete]

I suppose with the spec of your engine its possible, but yeah would have been handy to ask what figures they were quoting you in! Didnt you get a graph printout?

[rubachuk]

Didn't get a print out no. I wasn't actually with the car while they did it either which I was a bit suprised about, they had a waiting area in reception which is where they told me to wait. Maybe I should've insisted

[rubachuk]

Took my car over to Pro-tec Motorsport this morning for a tune. (1.3 on twin 40s, AST2 cam, modded head, manifold and full system)

I spoke to the guy after he'd done it and he said it was runing well and had 88 at the fly and about 76 at the wheels, he didn't say what units though (I really should have asked obviously). I've had a quick look on the net and it seems to me as though he may have quoted me a kW figure, which would give me 118bhp and 101bhp at the wheels which is at the top end of what I hoped for.

Does this sound right to you guys?

Following on from this I spoke to the guy that worked on my car over the phone today. He assured me that the figures he gave me were in bhp, so 76bhp at the wheels and 88bhp at the fly then. If thats true then I'm big time pissed off, expected between 110 and 120bhp (fly) with the current spec. Please let me know if I was being a bit optimistic, I think that was pretty realistic myself.

He also said the most they ever had out of their old fully rally spec Nova Sport was 97bhp at the fly. I told him I thought they had 100bhp out of the factory, he said they didn't. I didn't believe him.

Pro-tec came really highly recommended to me, but it seems some WIERD sh!t is happening down there.

Any ideas anyone?

[FUSION X16XE]

I think hes got a bit confused mate and just kept digging. Id say they were Kw readings. No graph? Can they send you one?

[General Baxter]

lol, my 1.4 with a twin choke has that bhp lol

[rubachuk]

No graph. This was the first time I'd taken a car to a rolling road for a tune and I've learnt quite a few lessons. Next time I'll be staying with the car and questioning everything.

There looks like a rolling road session local to me soon that I'll get in on, will be VERY interesting to compared the results

[MC]

I think your original thoughts are correct. Assuming they are not complete muppets and made you leave with a badly setup car then yes, I would expect close to 120bhp from your specification. Old school tuners usually just have a guage to read and no computer to plot and print a curve.

[MC]

What head mods do you have, enlarged valves?

[burgo]

id be tempted to try somewhere else

[rubachuk]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I've got a badly set up car, it runs much better than it did. I'm not bowled over by the performance though I must admit. It doesn't seem to pull too strongly over about 70mph. I could do with a spin in a similar specced car so I've something to benchmark it against.

TBH I'm a touch unsure of the spec of the head, I bought it as a gas flowed, ported and polished head, it used to be on a Nova rally car run by Evil C Rallying. It doesn't have enlarged valves but I had it checked out and skimmed by a cylinder head specialist local to me who told me it had had a lot of work done to it. It's the main thing I want to upgrade further in the future.

Like I say, should hopefully be at a rolling road "shoot out" day soon and I'll be very interested to see the results.

[MC]

To give you an idea, my 1.4 SR with similar modifications (cam, B pack head, manifold and system and twin 40's) would beat a 2.0 16v Astra GTE from stand still to 120mph easily.

[rubachuk]

OK then, now I might go so far as to say I've got a badly set up car.

I'll go out and have a good drive in it sometime over this week, but I'd seriously doubt it has that sort of performance in it. It seems particularly weak over 70mph, I've not pushed it over a ton since it was tuned, not even sure it'll hit 120 if I'm honest :(

Might be worth a thread in mechanical to see if anyone has got any ideas.

[adam c]

does it rev freely all the way upto the limiter(if it has one)i.e no flat spots etc?

[rubachuk]

You mean in gear I presume? Sometimes it seems to rev more freely than others. It can feel like its holding back a little at times, other times its fine.

I'm getting a bad feeling.......

[Asa-James]

i thought 1.3's came with about 75bhp from factory?

[rubachuk]

1.3SR = 70bhp

Sport = 100bhp

AFAIK

[Asa-James]

well i was close...

[Jack]

Sport had 100, or near as damnit, if it had the (optional?) cam afaik.


76 kw = 101bhp so sounds right, and if you have twin 40's etc on it, the bhp wouldnt be as low as 76
Unless, as stated, it was badly tuned. Remember carbs are old technology and require an old boy tuner who knows what he's doing to have them running spot on. If the mixtures are wrong, they can be well down on power, its not as easy as having an ECU control everything.


He also said the most they ever had out of their old fully rally spec Nova Sport was 97bhp at the fly. I told him I thought they had 100bhp out of the factory, he said they didn't. I didn't believe him.
Depends what engine of course - yes, 1.6's had 100bhp standard, but if he's talking about a rally prepared 1.3 then no that didn't have 100bhp as standard (when one considers a Sport engine to be modified of course).

I'd get a second opinion at another RR, preferably one who can give you a run AND carb tune, so look out for somewhere that promotes themselves as dealers/fitters on the carbs you have.

[garyc]

I wouldnt worry about it if I was you. All rolling road figures vary so much it is impossible to compare. It also depends how they workout the flywheel value, which is all tosh anyway. I'd stick to the power measured at the wheels and if you make mods and go back to the same rollers and see if the @ wheels number goes up. To get a true BHP reading you would have to stick it on a engine dyno.

[rubachuk]

I'm not too worried about the power figures anymore, I've got over that bit. There's just some wierd stuff going on with the figures they're giving out. The place it was tuned at is a fairly owd school type of place, the guy who worked on it has lots of experience on Nova Sports, a similar spec.

I'm more worried about the performance on the road, just doesn't seem to be where I thought it should be. I'd really like a run in another 1.3 at a similar spec to compare it. If this is as good as it gets, I'm thinking XE maybe

[mowgli]

RIGHT, the sport with the 'cam' in made about 90 hp in std spec....

the group A ones had forged pistons with higher compression.......

unless your bottom end has been recently rebuilt, & the flow figures on the head are measured against a std one, & everything else is checked, ie. is the distributor advance ok, is the fuel pump getting enough fuel to the carbs, etc... then I would expect that the figures are actually correct in hp.