Fuel pump problem - GTE

[noknok]

Morning all

I think my external fuel pump is dead. Engine turning over and sparking ok but nothing more.

Also I can't hear the little buzz/wuring noise on key turn which I beleive is the pump bringing the pressue up?

I did clean the two spade connectors and gave it a good 'tap' which did seem to fix it for a day but this morning it's not doing the trick.

What you guys think - new MPI pump needed?

[craig green]

Sounds like the pump is dying if whacking it brought it into life, however don't rule out the pump relay, clipped to the bulkhead/firewall. Try whacking that aswell.

You could also release the fuel pipe feed from the rail & see if turning on the ign sends fuel 20ft out the end (mind your eyes).

Otherwise its new pump time. Bosch ones can be had off ebay at good prices, think they are often listed as Manta & Astra pumps.

Where in Somerset you from, out of intereset matey?

[Will F]

I would check the relay first!!!!

More likely to be that. I have had millions of MPI Vauxhalls and only 1 pump has seized.

[AlexW]

If you get a plastic bottle on the end of the fuel pipe, bridge the fuel relay or use a powerd power probe.

[noknok]

HI Craig, thanks for info - I just checked them out on on ebay. I can get a new one for same price from place in Bristol so will nip over there shortly. I'll get a relay also in case it's that. I'm a bit wary of geting a 2nd hand one in case it furred up or bit knacked.

I'm not that skilled but reckon I can have a go at changing the pump myself. Would you mind giving me some tips for the swap, do I need to worry about draining tank or anything? does it matter if air gets in?

Any info appreciated.

We have spoke before on here but I don't always get time to keep up with posts regularily. I'm Somerset based like you, South of Bristol but you're further South if I remember.

Cheers

[noknok]

Just one thing, where exactly is the fuel relay, is it right hand side of engine bay clipped on near washer jet pipes?

[gorilla1q]

Thats it mate on the right as you look from the front of the car to back

[noknok]

Nice one, I'll give take a look tomorrow in the light.

I can hear a click from engine bay when I turn ig key but no buzz from pump so I'm guessing this is the relay switch firing up. Was in a rush this morning trying to get to work so didn't have time to look closer.

I'll put my lug 'ole next to it to check it's coming from the relay. If it is I guess it means relay ok and pump is defo for the bin...

[craig green]

Just disconnect the battery negative, take the spade connectors off the pump, release it from the cradle. Take the hoses off either end, maybe have a few bolts or screws to hand to plug the pipes from spilling. Insert the new pump & put it all back together with a new filter.

Just check the hose joins & wire terminals are the same before you start. Be prepared for perished or hard rubber hoses etc.

[rysmee]

why not just stick 12v straight to pump to check??? that way your 100% - elimating wiring, relays etc.

[noknok]

Good idea rysmee. I checked the relay and it's clicking well on turn of key so bugger it isn't the cheap bit needs fixing!

That's all I had time for this weekend been super busy so will have another investigate...if the rain holds.

By the way, forgive my ignorance Craig, but the fuel filter is the one right next to pump? as there's one in engine bay near fuel rail right? I guess you mean the one next to pump will be good to replace as it would be most under strain from nasties?

[novacabrio]

Relay in my opinion

[AlexW]

Like i said, Bypass the relay, Dosnt anyone lisen anymore? If you get fuel then there is your problem.

[noknok]

Good suggestions all, thanks. But the relay is clicking so that should mean it's firing power to the pump shouldn't it - still worth checking.

As I'm a bit of a novice and don't always have correct tools to hand so
afraid this thread is dragging on - I know simple faults things like this would normally be located pretty quick. Still learning new things which is good all the same !

[rysmee]

hey..the person who says they know everything and cant learn anymore is lying! so its all good!
Just because the fuel pump relay is clicking does not mean the pump is getting power!
Remember the wire for the pump has to run fromthe relay all the way back down down to the pump by the tank so there could be a break in that wire. which is why i said to put 12v straight to the pump. if you dont fancy that just grab a multimeter (always worth having and dont have to be expensive)
Then all you need to do is check for 12v feed at one terminal of the pump and then check continuaty (or rsistance) to earth. then you know that the pump should technically be running. (remember that with first key on you'll get a 3 second pulse (so will have 12v at that time) and after that it will dissapear until you crank the engine - at which point it will have 12v again)
If you dont have anyone to help you - you could always bridge the relay so the pump will have constant 12v.

[noknok]

Ok got down to business tonight. Pump out and hooked up to 12v battery with some jump leads!

Guess what, it fired up and sounded fine to me (ok, ok you already told me that!); and I thought it was dead. This is good news in some ways now need to check relay and power to pump.

More dumb questions, as I didn't inspect how it was wired up that well, is there an easy way to bridge the relay to check wire is good to pump, do I need to cut wires either side and remake the circuit without relay? I think I have right spot in engine bay - relay is the small cube shaped box on bulkhead with 6 or 7 spade multi plug going up into it from underneath?

[Will F]

Shock horror - its not the pump! lol

Will be the relay!!!

As I and 4 others have said!!

[noknok]

Ok Ok smartie pants :D!

I had reason to think it was the pump itself as a tap and fiddle of the pump seemed to fix it the once, and I could hear what I reckoned was the relay clicking - but hey I'm no expert as I said.

I'd like some help on how I would go about bypassing the relay if possible, then I'll know for sure without ordering the part.

[brainsnova]

find the wire at the relay that goes to the pump then take the relay out and put 12v down it and the pump should run :thumb:

[noknok]

find the wire at the relay that goes to the pump then take the relay out and put 12v down it and the pump should run :thumb:

The wires run into a sheath containing a load of wires and dissapear out of sight.

I don't suppose anyone happens to know which wire it would be - there is a beefy red one, would that be it, I'm just worried about doing some damage to my electrics in some way eek!

If I hook 12v (+ve & / or -ve??) to that one wire is that all that's needed also?
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/john_oconnor00/19082008053.jpg

[Will F]

The wires run into a sheath containing a load of wires and dissapear out of sight.

I don't suppose anyone happens to know which wire it would be - there is a beefy red one, would that be it, I'm just worried about doing some damage to my electrics in some way eek!

If I hook 12v (+ve & / or -ve??) to that one wire is that all that's needed also?
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m78/john_oconnor00/19082008053.jpg

Just bridge the thick red wire and the blue/red wire. Even if you get it wrong, it wont hurt.

Or just run a wire from the pos on the battery to the red/blue on the relay plug.

[noknok]

That's excellent, thanks for that info.

[AlexW]

Yep as will said. I recleanty done this to drain the fuel (water in fuel isnt good!)

[noknok]

Just bridge the thick red wire and the blue/red wire. Even if you get it wrong, it wont hurt.

Or just run a wire from the pos on the battery to the red/blue on the relay plug.
Ok did this, pump was ran fine with bypass - like may of you said it was the relay got a new one today and she's up and running again. Should have listened I know, ah well still pleased it's fixed, all for less than £20, bargain :thumb:

By the way - how do these relay's break as they're completely sealed from damp/corrosion, do the contacts wear out eventually, is there a micro switch thingy inside?

[Sturge]

wag any bit of metal back and forward enough, heating it up and cooling it down, spark as it contacts and releases, vibrations from the engine and chassis......