View Full Version : Mapping on friday, what power will i get?
Rick Draper
11-08-08, 08:15 PM
Having the nova mapped this coming friday by mark at his local rolling road.
270bhp:p
lol im guessing 532bhp:D
same 0 as on mig :p lol
goto a powerzone/dyno dynamics rollers and you will get whatever power you want :D
meritlover
11-08-08, 08:28 PM
dynos are good for impressing your mates with big numbers, as the Sturat says, you can make it read whatever you like by changing the transmission and rolling resistance losses.
Rick Draper
11-08-08, 08:31 PM
LOL its going on a dyno dynamics rolling road.
Rick Draper
11-08-08, 08:32 PM
dynos are good for impressing your mates with big numbers, as the Sturat says, you can make it read whatever you like by changing the transmission and rolling resistance losses.
Its only been done on the rollers to get some of the mapping sorted out then its been finished off on a private test track.
547bhp resulting in a geustimate of 511 whp?
Are you driving it there? or Trailoring it?
meritlover
11-08-08, 08:43 PM
Its only been done on the rollers to get some of the mapping sorted out then its been finished off on a private test track.
im not saying RR mapping doesnt give a great tune, im just saying the power figure displayed cant always be dependable.
RR mapping is probably the best way to write a tune, but the track is the best way to show how good it is and how well the engine drives.
Rick Draper
11-08-08, 08:43 PM
Are you driving it there? or Trailoring it?
Trailer, so i can bring it home :cry:
Confidence /\ lol
500+ i voted :cool:
After seeing this at brunters last year, i've also voted 500+.
Rick Draper
11-08-08, 09:06 PM
After seeing this at brunters last year, i've also voted 500+.
That seems like a long time ago now lol
I remember ripping up the taxi way and repeatably blowing the boost hose off. Then when i did get it to stay on 2 runs later it blew up lol
Where's the option for breaking it for parts before Friday?
^^^ im with Lee!lol
good luck any way mate, got to be 500+ if it decides not to self destruct!
That seems like a long time ago now lol
I remember ripping up the taxi way and repeatably blowing the boost hose off. Then when i did get it to stay on 2 runs later it blew up lol
Standing outside your car whilst ypu were doing your, ahem, "gentle mapping", it sounded like it was chewing large lumps of concrete away!
novacabrio
11-08-08, 11:32 PM
LMFAO at the poll result
Obviously 500+hp !
The only thing I'd be concerned about is keeping it on the road whilst on full boost lol
meritlover
11-08-08, 11:42 PM
Obviously 500+hp !
The only thing I'd be concerned about is keeping it on the road whilst on full boost lol
thats what the straps are for
vaughanmc
11-08-08, 11:56 PM
I've voted for 500bhp+
Can you use that much power in a Nova ?
Rick Draper
12-08-08, 12:08 AM
I've voted for 500bhp+
Can you use that much power in a Nova ?
No not really! Its quite a pointless exercise really lol
vaughanmc
12-08-08, 12:17 AM
Pointless maybe! But atleast you can prove that you done it and it can be done
Hope all goes well mate :)
thats what the straps are for
Did I say rolling road ?
I meant once its on the real roads, its getting live mapped once its been on the rollers.
Pointless maybe! But atleast you can prove that you done it and it can be done
Hope all goes well mate :)
It doesn't end here lol, Rick won't be happy until he continually starts breaking blocks in half then he'll have a excuse to spend his small fortune on having a Draper Developments 900hp block manufactured.
If it doesn't wheelspin in 6th in the dry its not fast enough :D
FUSION X16XE
12-08-08, 01:02 AM
In that case^ i hope it breaks! lol
Good luck with it mate the poll votes are those of little faith, was gutted yet impressed when i read in TV about your brunters errr.... hiccup lol
Best of luck and i reckon easy 500+ even if it will be all wheelspin lmao!
meritlover
12-08-08, 04:41 AM
Did I say rolling road ?
I meant once its on the real roads, its getting live mapped once its been on the rollers.
im sure that thing 'gravity' will help.
Philsutton
12-08-08, 08:57 AM
dynos are good for impressing your mates with big numbers, as the Sturat says, you can make it read whatever you like by changing the transmission and rolling resistance losses.
you can do more than that, changing the flywheel power is easy. If oyu can change the wheel power the rollers read thats more believable, which is still easy really.
hybridturbo
12-08-08, 09:19 AM
I enjoy reading the build threads, i dont think im ready to see pictures or hear rumours of it moving yet lol
Can picture all the lads at Rick's local waiting for the amo on friday nite though :thumb:
craig green
12-08-08, 09:41 AM
Wheres the 'who cares' option?
Or the "not enough" option lol
dynodynamics rollers are generally set up for RR shootout days and therefore are utter toss.
They can be setup to do the job properly but 9/10 setups I've seen arent.
my fave for upping the flywheel power is to dab the brakes on the run down lol
Philsutton
12-08-08, 10:49 AM
lol, the run down is the biggest load of toss ever. We decided to have a go an calculate the run down. Bascially it does a run in reverse if that makes sense an then adds that ontop of the wheel power. Think we got 150bhp loss from a standard z20let, which was excellent as it meant it made just over 350bhp. lol lol
Your better off not looking at the flywheel figure full stop really.
I goto a good RR that do a proper run down that DOES make sense and does work (It knows its own inertial losses due to a fixe roller weight etc) but the losses "line" isnt a straight one ;)
It helps if you are on a single roller as opposed to a two roller ditch which does make the losses toss
where is the burgo option? lol
Oh yeah ^^^^^^ as above wheres the burgo option??
I goto a good RR that do a proper run down that DOES make sense and does work (It knows its own inertial losses due to a fixe roller weight etc) but the losses "line" isnt a straight one ;)
It helps if you are on a single roller as opposed to a two roller ditch which does make the losses toss
Who's that then ? I do prefer the single roller setups
like you need to ask.... sarf essex
Track 'N' Road use a single roller setup
im sure that thing 'gravity' will help.
Do you really think gravity is going to help stop 500bhp torque steering you into the motorway crash barrier? lol
Rick Draper
12-08-08, 04:56 PM
Do you really think gravity is going to help stop 500bhp torque steering you into the motorway crash barrier? lol
I ripped it up the M6 sandbatch junction slip road after the last mapping session and torqe steered up the hard shoulder and accross back up the outside lane of the slip road lol
krobinson
12-08-08, 04:57 PM
I recon once its mapped and rick gets it up an empty motorway he wont break it.
I ripped it up the M6 sandbatch junction slip road after the last mapping session and torqe steered up the hard shoulder and accross back up the outside lane of the slip road lol
:cool:
meritlover
12-08-08, 08:04 PM
dynodynamics rollers are generally set up for RR shootout days and therefore are utter toss.
They can be setup to do the job properly but 9/10 setups I've seen arent.
my fave for upping the flywheel power is to dab the brakes on the run down lol
you cant really say that based on a particular manufacturer, no dyno is 'set up' for anything, each one has to be set up for the particulars of each car.
most dynos can be set up to calculate or even measure rolling resistances and drag co-efficients can be set to give a pretty accurate power output. The failing factor in this is the operator, who probably wont be bothered doing this for every single car on a shootout day.
however as long as the reading is repeatable then regardles of what the figure is, it can be very effective at writing a good tune.
on the flip side, the fixed load PID control on the dynodynamics machines is awesome, and is a VERY effective tuning tool. so i certainly dissagree the comment about only being suitable for dyno-day power runs. did you even think about what you were saying before you wrote that Sturat?
meritlover
12-08-08, 08:05 PM
Do you really think gravity is going to help stop 500bhp torque steering you into the motorway crash barrier? lol
itl certainly help it from floating away
you cant really say that based on a particular manufacturer, no dyno is 'set up' for anything, each one has to be set up for the particulars of each car.
most dynos can be set up to calculate or even measure rolling resistances and drag co-efficients can be set to give a pretty accurate power output. The failing factor in this is the operator, who probably wont be bothered doing this for every single car on a shootout day.
however as long as the reading is repeatable then regardles of what the figure is, it can be very effective at writing a good tune.
on the flip side, the fixed load PID control on the dynodynamics machines is awesome, and is a VERY effective tuning tool. so i certainly dissagree the comment about only being suitable for dyno-day power runs. did you even think about what you were saying before you wrote that Sturat?
yes the PID is good on the DD rollers.... but then our 10 year old rollers at work have good PID control too. Its not a huge challenge with slow stuff like a rolling road (get to 5 injections per firing event and then you get into fast/tricky PID's)
It is indeed mostly the operators/owners of the DD rollers that cause the problems..... but they dont do the brand any favours. Maybe DD need to educate the people who buy their kit ;)
meritlover
12-08-08, 10:18 PM
Its not a huge challenge with slow stuff like a rolling road (get to 5 injections per firing event and then you get into fast/tricky PID's)
It is indeed mostly the operators/owners of the DD rollers that cause the problems..... but they dont do the brand any favours. Maybe DD need to educate the people who buy their kit ;)
i disagree with it not being a huge challenge. a low inertia roller and 500hp. sitting on a steady fixed load site and to plant the foot. with fast changing conditions across the ign map and with boost coming in, the PID set up in intense. especially to cater for a range of vehicles/accelleration rates, retarder efficiency at different speeds and temperatures etc. i really dont see how injection events affect the PID controller
there isnt ONE PID controller in the world sweetie ;)
they are all over the place.... the PID control for setting the fuelling for 5 injection events per combustion event in an engine is rather more demanding than road load control on a roller. never mind, go on keep arguing lol.
Still remains that DD have a sullied reputation in my book for not educating their customers who cant setup a dyno to save their lives (nor run it properly)
i have't got a clue what you two are on about :D
like you need to ask.... sarf essex
Ah well, would satisfy my day hearing it said just once more lol
Not a fan of the DD setups at all after watching several shootouts held on them, figures were everywhere and the way they setup the cars for it is a bit ermm different lol lol
Not a fan of the DD setups
:eek:
I'll get my coat
Ah well, would satisfy my day hearing it said just once more lol
Not a fan of the DD setups at all after watching several shootouts held on them, figures were everywhere and the way they setup the cars for it is a bit ermm different lol lol
tttttttttttttttttttttttrack 'n' road :D
:eek:
I'll get my coat
I totally missed that lol
Who's that Stuart :confused: :D
novacabrio
14-08-08, 10:09 PM
Not long now!
Rick Draper
14-08-08, 11:41 PM
Nope! Twitching like a pigs ear!
novacabrio
15-08-08, 12:04 AM
text me the result lol
craig green
15-08-08, 12:14 PM
I heard its popped again...
Jungle drums have been beating fast i see!
I heard its popped again...
Aww its not has it:confused: :cry: :confused:
Texted Rick, seems that the head gasket has let go. Gutted. Was lookin forward to seeing what kinda power he would get!
May as well break it now, eh?
Joking!
Philsutton
15-08-08, 02:57 PM
Why has the head gasket gone again? Isnt this like the 100th time its gone within a few miles.
He said 'joking', therefore I think he was joking, slowpoke.
Welsh Dan
15-08-08, 03:03 PM
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/car-talk/369147-what-power-will-i-get-friday-2.html
They're saying headgasket went. I think its probably a windup though.
He said 'joking', therefore I think he was joking, slowpoke.
Was joking about breaking it. The head gasket HAS failed:
Text message:
"Head gasket again!"
I read it as the whole post was a joke lol
May as well break it now, eh?
99% sure he will.
He said this really was the last hundred/thousands £ engine build he was doing.....
Although hes probably said that a few times lol
Bad luck Rick :(
hybridturbo
15-08-08, 03:56 PM
Brake it
craig green
15-08-08, 04:30 PM
Bang on a pattern gasket & see what it makes at 75% boost. Creep it up over time, its amazing what could hold with enough time & heat-hardening things & bonding surfaces together.
I hope Rick tries to sort it, still so close.
When I spoke to him he didn't metion breaking it which is unusual. Guess it will all depend if anything else is damaged like last time.
Hopefully the heads not like the last time it went
And its just a bad gasket or soemthing
surely its not as simple as the headgasket keep blowing? must be somthing causing it
Welsh Dan
15-08-08, 06:42 PM
Fire rats!
Or it could be all the horses he has liquidised and poured into the block making a bid for freedom?
****in well gutted for you rick :(
Rick Draper
15-08-08, 09:49 PM
When I spoke to him he didn't metion breaking it which is unusual.
lol lol I did actally really enjoy today despite it having a few issues. Only a valve though so with a bit of work and improvements in some areas it will be back as good as new.
Not the gasket, that held up to 2.5 bar and all was well.
So it wasn't the gasket after all? Well, at least thats one issue that hopefully won't arise again!
So you've got to guess that you'll make 500 with no issues, surely?
Nice touch wouldve been a right kick in the teeth it twas gasket, glad for ya that its not though!! lol
So you've got to guess that you'll make 500 with no issues, surely? Looking on mig, the rr graph, it made 430hp in whats described as a "conservative" run to 5600rpm with a lot of ignition timing taken out lol
Bad luck as usual Rick, hopefully this will be the last time it needs sorting before it runs 100% good
Have you thought of getting the engine dyno`d out of the car???
I know of lots of people that get there cossie YB engines all done out the car my mates 550 bhp race car cossie used to get done on the rollers and got alot of problems with head gaskets and rebulds burnt valves pistons etc (over a period of years). Then got Dave Hills to dyno it and it lasted a whole season with no engine faults. And then at the end of every season its a strip and rebuild then a new dyno sesh. And it aint any more than a r/r map
Rick Draper
17-08-08, 11:43 AM
Think thats what i am going to do this time colin. Save me the time and hassle of bolting it in the car as well.
what goods a engine dyno compaired to being in the car?? end of the day its about whats getting to the front wheels, not what it makes at the fly. you could get to dif figures from changing from 15 - 17 wheels or soemthing.
just hope you can figure oput what happened and make sure it wont happen again!
Rick Draper
17-08-08, 02:01 PM
Cause if i bolt it to the dyno then its saved me all the hassle of bolting it in the car only for it to blow up that way lol. Also i value the time i would have saved at more than the dyno costs.
More the point as well, dont think Rick is that bothered about the actual figure that the printout says, more intrested in getting the engine setup and running.
what goods a engine dyno compaired to being in the car?? end of the day its about whats getting to the front wheels, not what it makes at the fly. you could get to dif figures from changing from 15 - 17 wheels or soemthing.
just hope you can figure oput what happened and make sure it wont happen again!
What good is a engine dyno. Hello its the best way to custom map a engine of this spec. I know i would rather a good safe map than be able to brag about how much ponnies i have at the front wheels.
Anyway once its done you can go to a r/r day and find out what it has at the wheels
novaxe235
04-12-08, 08:50 PM
id have it dyno'ed out of the car any day if i had the choice it makes things so much easier
id have it dyno'ed out of the car any day if i had the choice it makes things so much easier
The engine aint even in the car anymore mate, bit late to reply as the cars been broken now!
Southie
04-12-08, 09:29 PM
The engine aint even in the car anymore mate, bit late to reply as the cars been broken now!
He did say dyno it out the car though lol
The engine aint even in the car anymore mate, bit late to reply as the cars been broken now!
The engine will live on in a corsa.
He did say dyno it out the car though lol
Oh theres always one aint there lol
The engine will live on in a corsa.
in his dreams, that tarty corsa will just end up a worthless garage ornament like his pink nova!!lol lol
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.