Tiebars, whats the difference between standard and GSi

[Paul]

After a discussion with Ian ;) (Iainel), it got me think as to why GSi onmes are thicker. I can see no possible advanage wahtsover. So why are GSi ones thicker?

[Philsutton]

because the 1.6 8V is a monster of an engine? The diesels I can understand as they weigh more than the moon.

[Adam]

For the same reason why GSi's have strut top "strengtheners" etc

[Philsutton]

None then?

[Adam]

;)

[Paul]

So, there is no real reason for them at all then?

[Adam]

Well, thicker=stronger=less likely to twist/bend......

But like a 1600 is ever going do that anyway..

[_JH_]

Less likely to bend if you hit something hard, but the massive downside is the chassis is then more likely to go instead.

I'd say there is an 'advantage' to having the smaller size.

And before any EPC-jockey tells me you'll never bend them, I have lol

[Rich]

So dont really need to upgrade mine for 300brake? that saves me 30quid then lol

[Lee H]

Think Turbo Gav off Mig managed to snap a GSi one in half hammering a 300+ bhp LET off a roundabout, don't know if the thinner ones would be weaker?

[mowgli]

they made thicker ones for the diesels & gte for one very important reason. the extra weight.

[Adam]

But the front end of a gte probably weighs fook all more than a SR....

[mowgli]

there is all the extra interior crap, soundproofing & that ship anchor of a sunroof, it adds up to about an extra 100kg over std, & most of it is very high up, thus loads of body roll...

[Paul]

yes, but an SR had all what youve listed above too. And they had the thinner ones.

The flex on them is back not up or down really. So I really can't understand the point in them?

[Jcb]

I bent a tie bar in my 1.2!! Although that was from understeering into a curb. It was wet!

Incidently, it also bent the chassis, which had to be placed on a jig to be pulled straight. The wheel came back so far that it bent the lip of the wheel arch too. It all drives perfect now though. I put it down to the very hard suspension set up transfering 99% of the force to solid parts.

[vaughanmc]

GSi anti roll bars are thicker than ones from any other Novas ?

How many thickness' of ARB's were there ?

[Stanley]

IIRC, there are 3 differing thicknesses. Base model/GTE-GSi/Diesel

All around 20-26mm? (20mm/24mm/26mm)

Just IIRC, mind;)

[loggyboy]

You'll probably find they were done for homologation purposes. Group N car would have been resticted from upgrading the bars, so althought the road car wasnt intended to give them anymore punishment, the rally/race cars would have.

(not that this explains why die-sels have them)

[vaughanmc]

My uncle always told me to try and get a Diesel shell because they were more strengthened

But I went to look at a Nova Diesel *not a TD mind* and it didn't have a front ARB but it had the strut-top plates

[loggyboy]

But the front end of a gte probably weighs fook all more than a SR....
Sri/GTE/GSI all used thicker metal.
(i know for a fact they did around the chassis legs as when i cut my 1.2 chassis leg for the XE conversion it was piss easy, when i did my mates GTE shell it took me longer to grind thru it and hammer it in to shape.)
So i can only assume that parts of the rest of the car would have been too. It explains why the higher spec models were so much heavier (theres only so much weight. CL, EW door trims etc etc can add.)

[craig green]

Its not all about the power. When you stamp on the brakes at 120mph (GTE top speed) Without a tie bar, the front wheels want to rip themselves backwards & through the arch into the front kickwells. The opposite of what happens under acceleration.

So they sustain all braking & acceleration forces & keep the wheels where they should be.

Personally though I've no reason to think a thinner tie bar would snap, I'm glad I have the thicker items. GM build substantial safety margins into gearboxes, engines & other components for which we take full advantage of when modifying, add to the fact all these tiebars have been doing there job for getting on for 20 years [think fatigue]. Again; I'll take the stroinger ones.

[vaughanmc]

Good points you made there Craig :)

They both do the same job ? But the thicker ones are safer ?

[craig green]

Safer, ultimately yes.

Would you feel the difference, probably not.

But in a C20LET powered Nova with large tyres & big brakes. I'd definately want the strongest fr end setup I could afford tbh. It doesnt make sense to compromise with safety or braking.

[vaughanmc]

Aye thats a fair point, well made :)

I think I'll stick to my standard ones as well then unless a set from a GSi come up local to me

[Paul]

I have the smaller ones, and although I see where your coming from Craig, I still really cant see the point in fitting bigger ones.

[craig green]

I can't either, however tbh I wouldnt want to find out.

Its pretty extreme weight saving to switch from GTE one to poverty spec ones.

Another consideration is that a thicker tie bar might be beneficial on a heavier car, I gather yours is stripped which adds weight (like the pun?) to your argument I guess.

[Paul]

mine was a mk1 sr originally, so had the thinner ones. If some come about localy I may have them. I have no plans whatsoever change otherwise, as I really cant see them being beneficial, just wanted to see other peoples opinion on them, which generally is waste of time lol.