Engine Choice

[DW-Nova]

Hello everyone, going to be moving my nova from my little garage to my mates farm where i will have alot more room to work on it and i'm thinking of what engine to put in it.

20xe- obviously the original choice, good performance but i'm finding it hard to find a decent engine and its been done loads already plus i'm hearing loads about the negative effects on handling.

1.6 16v- Lighter weight engine and the potential for good performance but not the most reliable and it's gonna cost more to get a decent amount of power from it

1.9 cdti- I dont think anyone has done this before? over 150bhp standard and easy power but it'll be expensive to buy the engine and a right pain to install

Motorbike engine- at the moment this is my favourite idea, has anyone else put a bike engine into a nova? shouldnt be the most difficult thing to do and if i did a hayabusa engine they are 178bhp standard!! plus there might be room for two of them!!!

So what dose everyone else think? anyone got any suggestions for any other engine i could put in?

[adam c]

i personally would go for the 1.6 16v.how much have you to spend? i would fit the 1.6 16v and get a set of throttle bodies and aftermarket management put on.the 1.9cdti i expect will be a right pain in the **** to fit and get working properly.also bike engines may have good bhp but they havent got a lot of torque(there made to pull a 200kg bike not a 800kg nova!)so probably would only be good for "pub talk" so to speak.

[DW-Nova]

I've got around £1500 to £2000 to spend on the engine in the car an running(giving as much performance as possible), i can get a 1.6 16v pretty cheap as i work at a breakers yard, one out of an astra Mk4? what engine code have people used before? i'd be really keen on the cdti but as said before it's going to be a right pain to put it. Everyone please input your ideas.

[jimbob-mcgrew]

1.6 16v sounds good to me m8, i hear u dont have to stove the body in for alternater clearance on those, and if u can get one cheap, then u got plenty left over for mods.

[Adam]

CDTI engine would probably be impossible, without some major fabrication work. Complete fuel system swap etc.

Not worth the hassle.


Why are 1.6 16v's not reliable? Ive done about 12k with mine, its never broke down on me once(its failed to start once due to a broken starter earth, not a engine problem though).
Ive done trackdays and 1/4 miles, and its my daily driver.

That makes it quite reliable IMO


Yup, bike engines make mental power due to mental revs. But they make fook all torque(not needed for bike weight, but quite handy for a car......)

[Welsh Dan]

You could get a C20XE rebuilt and fitted to some 2nd hand management/tb's for that.

[tom_beverley]

The 1.6 16v engine seems to get tarred with being unreliable due many of them being ragged to within an inch of their life and drivers [usually young chavs] not expecting anything to go wrong/break.

Like any engine, if they are looked after they, like Ad's, will not be a problem.

If I hadn't built a new 8v I would of prefered to stick a 1.6 16v in, or better still [with a bit more cash] a 1.8 16v [Z18XE] as they have mucho potential.

[imnobby]

I've got around £1500 to £2000 to spend on the engine in the car an running(giving as much performance as possible), i can get a 1.6 16v pretty cheap as i work at a breakers yard, one out of an astra Mk4? what engine code have people used before? i'd be really keen on the cdti but as said before it's going to be a right pain to put it. Everyone please input your ideas.


ive got a c16xe in my nova but the x16xe is practly the same engine and they slot straight in wolllaaa!!!

[DW-Nova]

So far the 1.6 is sounding the best then hey, yeh theyre not the worst for reliability by a long way but then again as soon as we get them in they sell pretty much instantly! how much of an adverse effect will i expect to have with a 2.0? i wouldnt have thought it'll be that bad so long as the conversion is done propely. I think it's going to be between the 1.616v and the 2.016v, what about a later type ecotec 2.0 instead of a redtop as i can get one for next to nothing?

[Welsh Dan]

The ecotec has less book power, but if you'll be rebuilding and tuning anyway then there's no real reason to avoid it, provided you were getting the key and immobiliser aswell.

[Philsutton]

20xe- obviously the original choice, good performance but i'm finding it hard to find a decent engine and its been done loads already plus i'm hearing loads about the negative effects on handling.





Only from people that have fitted lowering springs an wonder why they dont go round corners.


C20LET, nothing else will come close performance wise and they are just as reliable as any other engine plus if its pulling half the weight of the calibra then its put under a lot less stress.

[Jack]

CDTI engine would probably be impossible, without some major fabrication work. Complete fuel system swap etc.
Fly by wire aren't they...? Prettys sure our vectra cdti pool car is.

[Lee H]

I'd say 20XE if you want a quickish car, standard 16XE will be pretty disappointing I would imagine as I even found the 20XE disappointing after all the hype they get.

[Dod]

1.6 16v sounds good to me m8, i hear u dont have to stove the body in for alternater clearance on those, and if u can get one cheap, then u got plenty left over for mods.

I did on mine. Its just too close.

[DW-Nova]

Yeh i'm going to be looking for around 200bhp so i'm gonna have to do alot of work to a 1.6 to get that, it's a 1.4 8v at the moment and i'm thinking is it worth turbo charging that? not sure really... i like the idea of doing something a bit different really, my mates got a Toyota Glanza which is of course a 1.3 turbo, it's got a few mods, running around 195bhp and that goes like stink!! i dont think i'll be doing a c20let as theyre mega money and i couldnt bring myself to buy a cav/calibra turbo and rip the engine out. really not sure what to do.

[Welsh Dan]

You've told us you've got £1500-2k for an engine+fitting. You'll get a C20LET for that.

[Nobby]

[quote=DW-Nova]Yeh i'm going to be looking for around 200bhp so i'm gonna have to do alot of work to a 1.6 to get that, it's a 1.4 8v at the moment and i'm thinking is it worth turbo charging that? quote]

even if thats done well reliability issuses come in, you would not even be running xe power! Get you self a xe some tb's some decent coilovers and you will have a rock on every time you drive it mate forget this small block crap ;):thumb:

[Philsutton]

You want 200bhp and reliability, there is no question really. Get a C20LET. To put a XE on TB's will cost more than / about the same anyway. Plus when you get bored with 200bhp it will only be another couple of hundred £ to get it up to 300ish.

[Jack]

Pics (& info on mods) of the Glanza pls :D:D:D:D

[Adam]

You want 200bhp and reliability, there is no question really. Get a C20LET. To put a XE on TB's will cost more than / about the same anyway. Plus when you get bored with 200bhp it will only be another couple of hundred £ to get it up to 300ish.
Good point.
Plus just what use is 200bhp with a xe on the road if youve got to rev to 8000rpm to get there anyway....

[DW-Nova]

i've been speaking to a friend who reckons that you drop in a post 1994 saab turbo engine into a nova with the c20let conversion kit, he says that it will bolt upto a vauxhall gbox and the internals are supposedly good for 400bhp?? What dose everyone think? if it's true it sounds good to me as i could get a whole saab to transfer the bits from for way under my budget.

[Lee]

If it was that easy it would have been done already, and I cant think of one example tbh.

[Philsutton]

the saab engine isnt all that peple make it out to be. To get to 400bhp your going to have to spend some serious money. They are cheaper than the c20let for a reason.

[Dod]

They're Ecotec based also and iirc the Turbo is a good 50bhp down and not as tunable as the LET either.

[Stuart]

get a crate LSJ engine from the USA 200bhp of S/C glory for about £3K
fit the bitch to an F23 and away you go (its probably not that easy but hey I thought I'd help lmao)

[Dod]

2.0 NA engine?

[Stuart]

do you not understand S/C ?

[Dod]

I didnt until you just pointed it out, no.

[garethcolley]

I had the same problem 5 months ago....i had a 1.2 which i thought was quite nippy. I was gonna get an XE but ended up going for a LET simply because i knew id want to tune the XE. As Phil says it was cheaper for me to get a LET in the long run rather than buying TBs. Ive been in my mates stripped out corsa XE since ive got the LET back and it doesnt even come close. Mine is Phase 1 with XE inlet and is blistering. So far unreliable but its getting there....also regarding handling mine is really good and its only on a Gmax suspension kit lowered 60mm (front more like 70) with rear ARB, rear strut brace, no front ARB and no front strut brace. Also on standard bushes. Clearly on a track i would see its bad points but i use it for fast road use and its exactly what i want.

[DW-Nova]

I think i'm going to do some more research on the saab engine as i've got this idea stuck in my mind for some reason? i suppose just because it's something different and if there is any truth behind what he's saying it could make out for something good, in the meantime i'm looking for a new daily driver, got my mind stuck on a glanza.

[Mike]

Small block Turbo FTW. Can build yourself for as little as £400.

[Welsh Dan]

Does that include mapping it Mike?

[Sloth]

saab turbo isnt an ecotec. its saabs own casting, it will bolt upto a family 2 box, aslong as its post 94 engine and the high pressure models are about 240 bhp standard. more than a let, they will take 350 to 400 bhp, but the standard ecu and turbo wont. you need to make a cambelt end mount,but thats not rocket science. and there is one being built. i should know im doing it:thumb:

[Gabbo]

have you not thought of going down the 2.0 8v route??
i have just put one in mine and dont 2k in it never missed a beat and its nippy too. keeps up to my mates redtop (till 130...)
just a thought thats all because the 8v are bullit proof as alot of people on here will agree and with it being a 2ltr theres plenty of horsepower to squeeze out of it!
:)

[Mike]

Does that include mapping it Mike?

The standard management will make 180bhp :thumb: yes its a bit of a bodge using FPR's to trick the ECU, but its an effective bodge unless you drive it like a complete ****wit lol

[DW-Nova]

i've decided that it will either be a saab engine, 20xe, or turbo charge my 1.4 8v, if i do this i'm going to use a renault 5 gt turbo carburettor unless anyone has any suggestions? so i wont need to be worrying about any ecu's and mapping etc aswell as keeping the cars electrics rather standard, my friend has just brought a fiat uno turbo so i'm pretty keen on the idea of a 1.4 turbo as the two cars should be fairly well matched, in practical performance car the other week there was a guy who had turbo charged his Peugeot 205 gti (1.9) and had positioned the turbo in place of where the back box of the exhaust would be, if i turbo mine this is what i shall do as the boost wil get cooled on it's return and there will be less heat in the engine bay.

[Welsh Dan]

If you're turboing a smallblock 8v you might aswell do it to a 1.6. There is no replacement for displacement.

You'd still need to get the carb setup properly, which would cost at least what a mapping session would, so it makes much more sense to use an injection setup.

Also, you'd make the same or more power with a fresh C20XE as you'd be likely to make with a turbo'd 1.4

[DW-Nova]

I know everyone says this but i do want to do something different, if i turbo it i will use the 1.4 i for the reason that i already have it, it's low mileage and a bit different really, i think if i do it properley i could get around 180bhp and as i had budgeted 1500 to 2k i will be able to do it properley especially as i will do all the work myself, i'm keen to stay with a carb setup as basically it will be easier, as my friend's doing an uno turbo i think the 1.4 turbo will be the setup i'll do. The engine will be fully re-built with uprated conrods, pistons, lightened and balanced, with an uprated cam etc etc.. the turbo will be mounted where the back box of the exhaust would live with a big front mounted intercooler.

[DW-Nova]

everyones views and suggestions welcome please

[Mike]

It'll make better power using an injection system for a charger rather then carb. And turboing a 205 GTi is pish easy TBH! As easy as a Nova 1.6T.

With a 1600 engine, youve got 100bhp out the box, add a charger and theres another say 65 ATF.

With a 1400 engine youve got what say 70 out the box, add a charger and youll make say 50ATF (smaller engine would use a smaller turbo, thus make less power) so your 1400 may make about 130ish horse, which is the same as an SEH powerplant, which is incidently far more cheaper to build/buy.

[Stuart]

hmmm lets see.

1.6/1.4 MPI head (SRI/GTE/GSI).
full CR measurement to ensure you are between 9.5 and 10:1
Correction if nessecary with machined head/pistons/be a raging homo and use more than one HG.

MPI inlet manifold + TB + injectors etc.
a plate to convert the 8v exhaust manifold to a T25/T3 fitment. (£30)
Turbo (£800ish unless you gypsy it from some old car so it will blow ASAP)
boost pipework (£100-200)
FMIC (£100 ish I dunno)
mildish cam (£200)
ECU (£200-5000)
Mapping (£500ish)

and about £500 for other bits.

£2K might not be enough if you want to do it nearly properly....... or bodge it up and complain that 8v turbos are crap despite you being a pikey on the build lol

[Mike]

Just edited Stuart's reply to what its cost me so far ;)



1.4 MPI machined head, ported, polished & valve guides wasted = £80

MPI inlet manifold + TB + injectors etc. (came with engine)
a plate to convert the 8v exhaust manifold to a T25 fitment. (£55)
Turbo (T25 @ 12.3psi) £80
Turbo elbow & downpipe £35
boost pipework (£80)
FMIC (£35)
Rotrex FMU from USA (Fuel Management Unit for charged engines) £38
Spacer plate with sealant £116

Total: £519

With CR, stroke, boost pressure and total frontal intercooler area taken into consideration, given correct fuelling at max boost (12psi) it should make ITRO 185+bhp.

In a few months time ill have an exact figure as im yet to finish and dyno the engine.

[Stuart]

hmm bargain 2nd hand head (or you got mates rates on the work lol)


I'll buy you a pie if that turbo lasts more than 6 months being used hard :D

I guess you can do it cheap if you know the right people/get good on the blag.... if you arent then expect to get butt raped for it

[Mike]

All the head work was done on mates rates by Burgo :D and a fantastic job to ;) (ask Lee, he had a good nose at it at PV!)

The charger was taken from a 58k (IIRC) SAAB 9000 Carlsson Turbo(purchased from a SAAB breakers in London)

Intercooler is a twin pass item from a Renault 5 GT Turbo, along with the charger elbow and downpipe, which incendently mate upto a Nova system if the downpipe is made several inches longer :thumb:

Low boost will around the 8psi mark, with an in-car manual boost controller and when funds allow a MegaSquirt kit with electronic boost control (may go as far as anti lag TBH just for the bragging rights lol)

[Adam]

Add to that cost oil return welded/brazed into the sump Mike, and oil feed pipes etc.
Also you "may" have oil return line problems with an adaptor plate on the std manifold, making the turbo sit too low so the return pipe isn't vertical enough.

[Mike]

^ all of that i can easily fabricate and produce at home. The matierials will cost funk all too.

I have a stockpile of steel sheet and pipe in stainless & mild at home :D

[Stuart]

^ all of that i can easily fabricate and produce at home. The matierials will cost funk all too.

I have a stockpile of steel sheet and pipe in stainless & mild at home :D


not everyone has the mad skillz to do that though lol

[DW-Nova]

I work in a breakers yard so literally any parts that i need for the conversion will be completley free, i'm definetley going to be using a carb (probably renault 5) so i wont need a mpi head, injectors etc, i also wont need to alter the electronics too much either. Will be moving the car into a much better place so i can start work on it properley soon and will start a project thread, although it will be all the bodywork which i'm going to sort out before the engine.