DSLRs

[Jack]

I've been musing about getting a new camera for a while now, as my old S5500 has been getting pretty shabby of late.

I was planning on going for the 400D, but after reading some reviews I've been thinking about Nikons. Whilst the D40x seems to be better than the 400D in terms of image quality, noise reduction and detail at full zoom, it doesn't have an AEB function which I want. The D80 looks good, and has AEB, but I can't find many direct comparisons with the 400D.

The Olympus e510 has good reviews too, but for me thats an outsider as I'm not familar with Olympus kit.

Basically, I'm after experiences or recommendations of the D80 and 400D - or any other camera that could be suitable. I'm not a pro so not looking to spend thousands, but I want to have a decent 18-55mm autofocus lens for average joe every day use (thinking of a Nikkor VR), 55-200ish mm manual focus telephoto lens, macro lens (I'd be happy with just using a lens extension tbh), wide angle/fisheye lens (proper lens, not a screw on attachment), and remote flash. I also would like a decent AEB function, preferably 5 shot but I think its only the pro cameras that have that many.

Is it worth spending a bit more and going for the D80 and a bunch of lenses, or maybe holding out for the 450D? Has anyone used the Olympus e510?

[Welsh Dan]

I'm happy with my 400D, however I'm still getting to grips with it. If you go for one, ditch the kit lens and either get the IS version, which is not the same lens with IS bolted on, or the Sigma 18-50mm F3.5-5.6, I'm using the latter and have noticed a marked improvement on the kit lens, especially nearer the 18mm mark, and was only £80. As I wear glasses I sometimes find it difficult to use the 400D viewfinder without taking them off. Battery life is great. I'm told one of the best 'walkaround' lenses is the Canon 17-85mm IS USM, my father in law has one on his 20D and it is a good lens.

Ade's pervy lens is pretty good, I've got the same one and its the Sigma 70-300mm APO, which I got for around £120 new.

If you're looking at the D80, I can't comment on it, but its around the same price as the 40D, which has a much bigger/better viewfinder than the 400D by all accounts, and is supposedly nicer to hold.

EDIT: No, the D80 with kit lens is a little less than a 40D body only.
prices (http://www.onestop-digital.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_22&osCsid=fb365e9f33e2ee2b31fc348900e8c3dc)

If you'd have said at PV i'd have let you use my 400D :p.

[NovaLad]

I'm going to get to the point.

400D FTW!


Nikon's are like having an overweight girlfriend, everythings all good until you see a slim looking Canon walk past.

[craig green]

My Daduses Olympus stuff. He thinks they are ACE!

[Welsh Dan]

My Dad uses Olympus aswell, primarily because the one he has is particularly sensitive to Infra Red, and he's into IR photography.

canikon are the mainstream though.

[Jack]

I'm going to get to the point.

400D FTW!
No offence but I don't give a fcuk what it looks like - most equivalent DSLRs seem to be pretty much a like for like in terms of size and weight anyway. And the Nikon looks better than the Canon so :p

I'm a Canon man at heart, all my 35mm stuff is Canon (annoyingly its all old skool FD lenses, so won't fit the modern EOS range of cameras :mad:), but something is telling me I would be better off with the Nikon or the Olympus.

Does the 400/450D have a live view, i.e you can view the image on the LCD? Seems most Nikons don't do that, and I'm used to it with my Fuji camera. Muchos handy when you're crawling about on the floor trying to get a decent angled shot lol

[Welsh Dan]

400D does not have live view. 450D does.

I find that I've learned to use the viewfinder whenever possible, and when its not possible to just take several shots. Its not a feature I'd look for to be honest. When I use my compact I always feel miffed when I can't find the viewfinder lol.

Speaking of lenses, this (http://www.onestop-digital.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_26&products_id=35) is new, and it looks like a great buy.

[Sturge]

Not sure how the specs compare but I've got the 350D and find it more user friendly than the 400, well laid out and easy to work out. Which? rated it better than the 400 too

[Stuart]

When I was looking at DSLR's The Sony A100 had just been released and the Nikon D80 was round the corner...

Now having played with a Nikon D70 I thought the user interface was poo so went for the Sony. My old man for a D80 a little while back and have to say its an excellent improvement form the D70. Far easier to use (but still a git lol)

Never played with any Canons.

I'd chose whichever has the Lens you like :D as the bodies/specs are pretty much identicle these days

[SRimon]

I've the 350D

I like it.

Its easy to use.

Nuff Said.

[Ben]

Ive just got the 450d with 18-55 lens but main reason for getting was i already have a 80-300 and a fisheye lens for it, but to be honest find them very easy to use and you got both levels of able to point and shoot or get more in depth if you wish.

Best bet is go to somewhere like Jessops and pick them up and play with them to get used to the feel of them etc.

For the price difference i would go for the 450 over the 400.

[ade]

Jack - I was using a 350D at PV with my pervy lens. youve seen the scaled down results. The 400D is good (has a sensor cleaner built in) and you can pick up a second hand one with extended guarantee on ebay for less than £300 with decent IS lens.

Nikon and Canon are pretty much similar and if all youre doing is taking day to day shots (eg not pro shots) then go with what youre used to (eg canon). It depends on what youre using it for? Also you can buy an adapter on ebay that lets your FD lenses fit the canon body I believe.

Ive got an old practika/zeiss camera with the screw thread lenses and with the special apdater have a new range of decent lenses i can use (they weigh a ton though!)

What's your budget (or did I miss that)? The 450D is good but the 40D is what I'd get next...I need something with a decent burst rate in RAW mode...

[Jack]

Well I had a play with my mate's 400d this evening. I'm quite impressed, its not a bad camera, although the manual settings took a little fettling to figure out. Viewfinder was good, and tbh after using that I don't think I'd miss not having the live view on the LCD screen. Didn't get a chance to have a go at the manual focusing, which I should have really.

Hmm... just need to find somewhere with a Nikon D80 I can have a play with.

BTW, budget is variable at the moment as I'm only still looking so could save some cash if the right camera cost a bit more.

[ade]

400D is a good camera - however tbh the camera is only as good as the lenses you use...
400D has pretty much eveything for your "standard" photographer. 12 meg px and fast burst rate - also self celaning (which most canons have now as standard unlike Nikons from what I rememebr).
ou'll then get used to the camera settings...it's the range of lenses in the medium to budget range you should check out.

You might find this useful -

www.fredmiranda.com (http://www.fredmiranda.com) Excellent resource for camera and lens reviews. i use this when i consider buying budget/mid range lenses.

Also check out www.pbase.com (http://www.pbase.com) you can search by lens type and see some stunning shots.

[NovaLad]

IIRC 400D is 10MP Ade.

[Jack]

Yep, the 450d is 12mp.

I was thinking of holding off and seeing what Nikon come up with in response to the 450d, but read a report saying that they haven't bothered to announce a competitor for this year, so its going to be early 2009 before they put something new on the market to go up against the 450d. Hmm.

[Alex.]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but quickly, anyone got any thoughts on the Fujifilm S5800?

[Ben]

The main problem i find with the 40d is the sheer size and weight, also the control wheel is on the lefthandside which is backwards to any other model.

Great camera but is it twice as good to go with twice the price? Not imo

[ade]

alex - 5800 is pretty good - I looked at it before getting a dslr.

Most finepix cameras take good pics from experience...

[Jack]

I was put off Fuji as my S5500 isn't as good on colour as I'd hoped - although I always seemed to find that Fuji SUCs and average joe 35mm film used to give a slight cyan colour cast, which my digicam does too.

Right, I've decided on a 450d - I think its got the edge over the Nikon D80, although I'll get body only and buy different lenses than the kit. Canon do £50 cashback before 4th August I've found a retailler that sells the body only for £421 (from where I can get a further 3% cashback), so thats <£360. Now just to find some lenses lol

[Welsh Dan]

I'd suggest this (http://www.onestop-digital.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_26&products_id=35) or this (http://www.onestop-digital.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=24_28&products_id=275), I own the sigma, but if the Canon one had been available when I bought it, I'd have chosen that.

I'd also suggest this (http://www.jessops.com/Store/s28621/0/Lenses/Sigma/18-50mm-f-and-35-56-DC-(Canon-AF)/details.aspx?&IsSearch=y&pageindex=1&CatId=143&ManIds=1518,&MultiOpIds=263,&SortBy=SkuOfferingPriceASC&IsInStockOnly=False&comp=y) or this (http://www.jessops.com/Store/s70092/0/Lenses/Canon/EF-S-18-55mm-F35-56-IS-Lens/details.aspx?&IsSearch=y&pageindex=1&CatId=143&ManIds=1159,&SortBy=SkuOfferingPriceASC&IsInStockOnly=False&comp=y), again I own the sigma and am very happy with it until I can stretch to something a lot more expensive.

[SRimon]

Dan

I've got the standard EFS 18-55mm lens on mine, which would be a good upgrade?

[Jack]

Dan, thanks, those lenses look ideal :D

The Sigma 70-300mm lens comes in two flavours, one with "APO" is more expensive. Whats APO?

[Welsh Dan]

RJ: APO is Sigmas answer to coating the lenses with something to stop colour separation/fringes. Ade and I use the APO one.

SRimon: I went from that lens to the Sigma 18-50mm and my pics are sharper. The sigma 17-70mm is also supposed to be really good, but is a good few hundred £ more than the one I'm using. 17-70mm pics (http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=154132)

Some full size pics from the Sigma 18-50mm taken just now:
18mm (www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/18mm.jpg)
50mm (http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/50mm.jpg)
50mm macro (http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/50mm_macro.jpg)

I'll take some with the kit lens now.

[Welsh Dan]

Canon EFS 18-55mm shots, full size:

18mm (http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/18mmcanon.jpg)
55mm (http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/55mmcanon.jpg)
55mm macro (http://www.xen0phobiak.f2s.com/18to50/55mmcanon_macro.jpg)

I'd not compared shot for shot before, but shot on full manual, with flash, same apeture and same exposure, the sigma seems faster*! Compare the shots and exif data for yourselves.

*I did use a different F number on the macro shots.

[Ben]

I paid £333.3 for the EOS450d with canon 18-55 lens, bag, 4g sd card, lens cloth's, spare battery etc lol

[Welsh Dan]

Where from?

[Ben]

Bangkok!

Full 12mth worldwide guarentee, bought from official Canon shop

[large_steve182]

i paid about 800 for my 400d, 18-55 kit lens, 70-300 lens, uv filters. spare battery, 4gb memomry card, case.
proper good.

[Welsh Dan]

I paid £300 for my 400D + 18-55 kit lens, battery, charger. Used but in perfect condition, had only taken about 650 shots.

[Stuart]

Jack, maybe look at proper pervert lenses ie 18-300mm. ok they are a bit fatter but it saves dicking about changing lenses (ie looking like yer dad lol)

[Jack]

Yeah, but it would be a fag having a mahoosive lense on all the time. Plus, for the price of that one I could get a decent wide and long lens.

At the moment its looking like I'll be getting the 450d, with Canon EF-S 17-85mm and Canon EF-S 55-250mm telephoto lenses (was very much impressed with the quality of pics from these lenses on the camera labs revew site, both have IS), plus a couple batteries, polarizer and 4gb memory card for about £870 before I wangle in some cashback. I'll save up for a fisheye lens later lol

[large_steve182]

with the standard kit lens. (17-85) in your case. it has a relatively wide angle to itself. the only time i found i needed my wide angle lens was when i was looking for a extreme close up with a rounded effect.
but canon is where it is at. easiest camera i found to use and never had any problems with one

[Welsh Dan]

Bargain (http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_6&products_id=102738) ;)