View Full Version : Beginners Install Suggestion
Hi, I'm looking to fit a decent system into my car. What are my options? I wanna achieve good sound quality with a decent bit of bass, so I'd like a Sub or 2 as well. No budget as yet but I'd be willing to pay for something decent. No TV screens required as I have a house for that.
Head unit; anything goes really. If you want a sub, best to look for a HU with a dedicated sub output with decent voltage. Being able to play MP3 CDs is pretty much the norm now, but if you have an iPood or whatever then some kinda line in socket may come in useful.
Front speakers; Do you fancy mounting door pods or cutting holes into your door? If not, you're limited to having 4" dash speakers which won't give any bass.
Rears; you can either make up some rear quarter panels to hold speakers, or mount some speakers in the parcel shelf. If you're having anything bigger than 6" in the parcel shelf, you'd be best advised to make an MDF one to stop if vibrating too much. Don't use the parcel shelf for speakers if you're having a sub as the latter will interfere with the air for the speakers.
Sub; I prefer 10" subs to 12" or 15" as they react quicker and sound punchier. Build your own box or get one to the manufacturer's specified volume - the 10" sub in my Nova sounds complete toss at the moment as the sub box is far too big (cheap ebay tat). If you're short on space, you can build the box smaller but pad it with foam or insulating material to make it "feel" bigger. Big wattage does not necessarily mean big sounds - my 300W JL is far better than the old 1200W Sony I once had.
Amp; match RMS output figures to RMS of speakers, taking account of resistance (note that 2x subs can be wired in different ways to change the resistance). If you want 2x subs, you don't need a multi channel amp, monoblock amps can run dual subs both off one channel, so long as the power requirements are ok. Don't forget to buy an amp wiring kit with suitable fuses and connectors!
Also, to improve sound at the cost of added weight, be liberal with stuff like dynamat and/or brown bread (or just whatever cheap insulating/soundproofing stuff you can get, but make sure ti won't catch fire if there's an electrical short or overheating). I'd say some form of soundproofing is essential if you're mounting speakers into the doors or rear quarters.
Pretty much all of this will depend on your budget tbh. I spent about £240 and that got me 2x amps, AWG0 twin amp wiring kit, RCA cables, 10" sub, sub box but didn't include speakers or head unit which I already had. I prefer to go for better kit such as the likes of JL, Alpine, Infinity etc over cheaper brands like Vibe, JBL, Sony etc. If I was feeling flush I would look at Phoenix Gold and Cerwin Vega :D
HTH
as rj said... i would have to say a alpine head unit would be a good place to start...and one 10" will do fine with the rite amp... you can pick up jl audio amps/subs/speakers for good money now adays...
Right well I have a Stealth shelf and a boot build ready from donor carsbut i wanna keep it as subtle as possible. Dont want a whole mad ICE install for the world to see, just something with a bit of a boot to it. Any suggestions on Brands and models? Best place to buy?
Depends on budget, but as said I tend to stick with the likes of Alpine, Infinity, Pioneer, JL.
Well the budget is around the €500 mark including a head unit (so about £420 or there abouts)
As stated its a beginners install and I'm asking for specifics as i havent got a clue whats what with Sounds. Whats RMS, A Cross over, why do i need brown bread etc. lol
Can anyone show me a link and say "buy that, thats your best option" sorta thing pweeze? Rep added for anyone that does. :D
£420 is a respectable budget, that should get you some decent kit :)
Have a look on www.bassjunkies.com , www.incarexpress.co.uk , www.caraudiosecurity.com to start you off.
Incidentally, speakers/subs/amps etc have two power ratings - PMPO and RMS. The former is peak power, thats what the speaker/amp can hit for a short period before it breaks. RMS is continual power, thats what the speaker/amp can sit at all day long without overheating/popping and thus the more important power figure.
So for example, an 800watt Sub in 12" form, If I have 2 I'd need a 1600watt Amp to run them effectively?
Whats the best layout? Tweater, 6x9s and a pair of Subs? Do i amp the 6x9s and the subs or just the Subs?
So for example, an 800watt Sub in 12" form, If I have 2 I'd need a 1600watt Amp to run them effectively?
Unfortunately its really not that simple. Depends on how the subs are wired (series or parallel), what resistance they run at, and whether they're dual or single coil. This (http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html) explains it. Fun ahoy!
Whats the best layout? Tweater, 6x9s and a pair of Subs? Do i amp the 6x9s and the subs or just the Subs?
No real need for 6x9s with a sub, as the latter takes care of the bass. I'd think about components up front, 6.5" in the rear cards, then a sub or two in the boot. Depending on the output of the speakers, you may want to buy a multi channel amp to sort them, but an additional amp (i.e. in addition to the amp that runs the sub) will chomp a lot of your budget.
Welsh Dan
24-06-08, 02:53 PM
Dont fit 6x9's.
Amp everything.
If I were to start from scratch, I'd keep the 10cm pioneer coaxials (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/4820.html) that I've got in the stock rear location. I'd fit some door or kickwell pods with some 13cm component speakers for the front, such as these (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/39.html). I'm happy with my Vibe Evo12 CBR sub. I'd use an amp such as this (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/1180.html), and a headunit such as this (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/8279.html).
I'm currently using a £100 sony mp3/cd head unit, and some 13cm pioneer coaxials in the doors, with no seperate amp other than the one thats built into the sub, it all sounds "ok", but I can see how amped components and a decent head unit would improve things.
EDIT: I've just realised that that would take you over budget if you bought a sub aswell, but you could spend £70 on thesehttp://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/6691.html, and buy a slightly cheaper head unit.
Dan thats spot on mate, thank you very much!! Rep added to all concerned.
NovaLad
24-06-08, 03:20 PM
I spent,
£160 on my sub.
£120 on my amp.
£50+, Buying a 0 guage wiring kit either today or later this week aswell.
I built my own box for my sub and it sounds ok.
I was looking into how i'm going to fit speakers to my car because i don't want to put holes in the GSi door cards.
I also don't want to replace the dash speakers.
My ownly options are.
1 speaker per rear door card - but would have to make some kind of pod or something.
Tweeters in the piller above the seat belt holder.
Can't think where i am going o be able to fit some speakers otherwise.
EDIT: The speakers i will be going for are foculs.
As said make sure you amp your speakers and sub and if you can afford it then it's allways best to use sperate amps.
Make sure most your money goes on a decent headunit as it's this which will give you that quality sound.
£50+, Buying a 0 guage wiring kit either today or later this week aswell.
AWG0 for one amp? Thats a bit overkill...
Bugger, what wiring should I go for?
Welsh Dan
24-06-08, 07:38 PM
There's not much wrong with a standard autoleads wiring kits from caruadiosecurity/halfrauds.
That being said, I lost all the leads bar the positive one, so made my own earth+remote wires, and used a 'normal' rca cable.
Ignore the hype about gold plated terminals and oxygen free copper. If you're really concerned about the quality, buy a normal cable 1 gauge thicker.
as a basic but good system i would look to buy a decent headunit 1st, with high voltage preouts and ideal 3 (f+r+sub)
a set of front components 5-1/4inch or 6-1/2inch
a single 12" sub in a properly designed enclosure (vibe are good for the money for instance, or something along those lines)
a decent 4 channel amp to power the front components and the sub.
and a 4channel 4guage wiring kit, (will include 2x rca leads)
0 guage is overkill unless your thinkng of using like 2000+ watts RMS lol. 4guage will be suficient.
sound deadening will make a massive improvment to the overall sound quality and loudness to the whole system aswell.
forget about rear speakers in my opinion, you want a half decent set of front components and make sure they are amp'd. imagine going to a concert, your not going to be standing there back to the stage listening to them. naturaly you listen to things infront of you, hence forgeting about rear speakers. the diffarence is phenominal when comparing similar systems but one with a good front end setup and one without but with 6x9's
on a budget the FLi components (£50 new) are very very good for the money, as are the pheonix gold octanes. your choice really, go with something you like and make sure you allways match your amp and speakers/sub using ONLY RMS ratings..
forget about rear speakers in my opinion, you want a half decent set of front components and make sure they are amp'd. imagine going to a concert, your not going to be standing there back to the stage listening to them. naturaly you listen to things infront of you, hence forgeting about rear speakers. the diffarence is phenominal when comparing similar systems but one with a good front end setup and one without but with 6x9's
Au contrare, I find its better to have sound all around me, balanced with the fader and balance (and if you're feeling really good, use time delays). When I was putting audio in the Celica it sounded better on all four than it did with just the fronts connected. Even in the Nova it sounded better with decent speakers in the rear and the standard ones in front than it did with just the decent ones up front alone.
All down to personal preference though I suppose!
That reminds me, I've seen some Pioneer head units which come with a little microphone which you place on the drivers seat - the head unit then adjusts the sound to each speaker to give the best possible audio for the driver. Apparently it works really well!
Right, so what wiring should I use, I'm as confused as **** now!! I have a 2nd hand set up in the pipe line, boxed and all, but no details on whats what just yet. I'll post up the Brand and model numbers this afternoon.
Pick up an audioleads amp wiring kit (this should contain power, earth, fuses, remote lead, RCA cable), but wait til you've got an amp first as the manual will tell you what gauge wires you need for power, earth, output etc. I would say AWG4 should be ok for up to 500W RMS, but check the manual first.
Note the amp wiring kit may not come with cable to go from amp to sub (mine didn't); again, check the amp manual or output terminals to find out what size wire you need to fit then go to halfords or maplins etc (amp to sub is usually quite short, so 50cm or less should do).
Head unit just needs power (& fuse) and earth. I just used some spare 17 amp halfords wire for this.
Speaker wire, just the usual twin cable shizzle. If you're going from the head unit direct to a speaker, anything will do really. If you're going from an amp to a speaker, make sure you get some decent cable (I used AWG16 iirc) as its gotta handle more power.
You probably already know this, but remember the higher the gauge number, the smaller the wire - i.e. AWG8 is smaller than AWG2.
I didnt to be honest and now I'm more confused than ever. FFS!!!
Sorry if I sound lazy, but i'm just bewildered here now.
Can someone suggest an install based on the requirments mentioned in a previous post? Good sound quality, Good Bass and on a negociable (sp) budget of £400. Beers at Billing for whoever can!!
This is one way I would consider spending that £400.
Head Unit
Alpine 9874RR (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/7982.html) - £114.99
Front Components
Infinity Ref6520i (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/6693.html) - £69.99
Rear Coaxials
Alpine SPE-17C2 (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/5327.html) - £24.99
Sub/Amp/Box/Wiring
Infinity Ref1600a + Infinity Kappa 102.7 DVC (http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/8307.html) - £189.99
TBH though I would buy from ebay/second hand, bargains to be had especially on amps (which tend to eat most of the budget). My Infinity 7521a was retailling at £120, bought for £58 from CAS; Alpine amp was retailling >£250, bought for £46.
Jack, thank you. Whats your Favourite Beer and are you atternding Billing?
Spingo :D
Won't be at Billing, but I should be at the National Day :D
WTFs Spingo? I'll send a tin over with Keith for you. :thumb:
Right, what I got today is
. 1no, 720 watt XS XSA 720 Amp
. 1no, 900 watt XS XSA 900 AMP
. 2no, Lightning Audio P3.12.4 4ohms 300 watt Subs.
Good bad or ugly?
I'm assuming the 900watt Amp is uncalled for?
Little to no wiring with it though.
would have assumed/thought u woudl go for some good stuff tbh. XS is very very cheap stuff, yes it works but not really anything to go by when quality is concerned...
like i stated earlier, i woudl have gone for 1 decent 4 channel amp, 1 12" sub and a headunit of your choice (with 3 preouts)
systems can be built very very cheap these days. vibe active subs (built in amp) can be bougth for as litte as £50 these days and are very very good for what they are, as the enclosure is properly designed for the sub and then the amp is the correct ratint to match.
a single 4 channel amp would make life simpler aswell, because now to do things properly you will need a distribution block for the power and the earth ( easy £30 for them)
have a good look at the recomended subwoofer enclosure as they wont sounds right if there not in the correctly size box. a ported box will generaly be 3DB louder than the same sub in a sealed box.
sound deadening the boot floor/inner arches/boot can give as much as a 3DB gain aswell, and also make the car quieter when comuting and make the sound system sound alot better quality.
on a budget i woudl have probably gone for somethign along these lines
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FLI-12-SUBWOOFER-AMPLIFIER-COMPONENT-SPEAKERS-6x9_W0QQitemZ170204707879QQihZ007QQcategoryZ18800Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
Ah I know its probably not the best quality of stuff, but it all came in a pre made Cavalier Boot build and only cost €80 (£60) so I may as well make use of it. That kit you showed me there looks spot on but the distance is the only trouble. Postage here would be a disaster!!
Whats my best bet with the stuff I have here? I intend to fit it, but dont know exactly what way, what needs added to it ect.
CK, thanks for the help!!
Can't find any decent specs on the XS amps so not sure of the best way to wire them in...
Damn!!! Would it help if I took Pics etc?
Managed to Blag a Power Cap and another 300 Watt Amp today. So I'm thinking the 300 watt to run a set of 6x9s, the larger of the 2 other amps for the Subs, then I'm left with a 3rd 720 watt amp and a Powercap. Whats a Power Cap anyway? Not the Throttle body item either.
Welsh Dan
10-07-08, 01:36 PM
A power cap smoothes electrical noise from the +12v supply.
Please don't fit 6x9s, you will regret it. I did.
Ok, well atm I have 2 Subs and the standard speakers and well the Powercap and 3 Amps lol
Whats my best method of fitment and additional speakers? I know theres been a few suggestions but I'd like to buy a minimum and use as much of what I have here.
NovaLad
10-07-08, 01:50 PM
It's not the watts you need to look at it's the RMS.
WTF, RMS figures are watts lol
Also take note of the resistance - 200W @ 2Ω (Ω = Ohms, = resistance) speakers are not good on a 200W 4Ω amp, for example.
Novalad, get your own Avatar you wanna be!! lol
Anyhoo, whats my best plan of action lads?
TBH, without knowing exact specs of the equipment, i think as you said would be best. If you want to use the 6x9s, I'd recommend putting them in the rear quarters, but certainly not on the parcel shelf over the sub (reason being, the sub interferes with the air to the speakers, and vice versa, and makes it all sound a little bit poo). Powercap, wire it into the power supply for the amps (or, if it can only handle one amp, put it on the amp for the sub).
The spare 720W amp you could then sell to fund some front speakers.
Yes, I like what you're saying Jack. So any recomendations with regards for 6x9s?
Welsh Dan
10-07-08, 02:24 PM
Put them in the doorcards if you're determined to use them. :)
Ahhh, sorry I thought you said you already had a set of 6x9s and wanted to use them seen as they were there. [edit] Or do you? I'm confused now lol
If not, I'd recommend looking for some coaxial speakers, around 16-17cm - they would work better with the sub, also take up a lot less room and be easier to mount! Whats your budget for speakers?
Well the rest isnt costing me much so pretty much whatevers required!!
jimbob-mcgrew
11-07-08, 01:52 AM
cant get much more bang for your buck than a £30 pair of alpine 6x9's in the rear shelf, had a 4x15 watt stereo going thru those 2x30 watt speakers for a good 2/3 years, still got em, still sound great.
NovaLad
11-07-08, 01:59 AM
RJ when you buy something like an amp it will be like 1500 Watts maybe but the RMS will be 750.
The RMS is what you look for and not the watts if you want a decent system.
RJ when you buy something like an amp it will be like 1500 Watts maybe but the RMS will be 750.
The RMS is what you look for and not the watts if you want a decent system.
Right conclusion, but you're wrong about the Watts bit. RMS is measured in Watts in most consumer audio equipment.
Audio equipment has two power ratings, PMPO (peak music power output) and RMS (root mean square). In laymens terms, PMPO is the most a speaker/amp can handle in a short burst, whilst RMS is "continuous" power.
As both are a power rating, both are expressed in Watts (e.g. 300W PMPO, 120W RMS).
Its a bit more complex than that in real terms, and strictly speaking thats not correct, but in terms of the audio equipment you buy for your car thats how it is.
Ok, so what 6x9s am I after?
jimbob-mcgrew
12-07-08, 03:01 AM
ive had pioneers and alpines, and heard some sony xplods before.
id say that if your a fan of bass for sacrificing a little clarity the pioneers are for you. they did seem to die a bit after 6 months tho, i think they were a bit too bassy for their own good and rattled themselves apart. (these were 3-way)
if you like your bass but not a junkie and want decent clarity, id say the alpines are the one, they seem to last longer because they dont slog themselves like the pioneers. (2-way)
and the xplods, i dunno whether they were second hand or set up wrongly, cos they were with a sub, but they sounded turd, scratchy and farty if i remember. i suspect the standard sony 6x9's are better than the xplod version, sony usually produce high quality gear. (3-way)
or if jvc still make em, ive 'heard' there fairly solid
all about £25-35 a pair i think
edit: altho saying all that this lot would be from the year 2001 to 2005 ish generation so things mighta changed since then :tard:
Welsh Dan
12-07-08, 06:22 PM
Ok, so what 6x9s am I after?
Seeing as you dont already own any 6x9's dont buy any. The only benefit to 6x9s is that they sacrifice clarity to gain bass, but you'll be using a sub anyway, so get yourself some 13cm or 17cm coaxial (passive) or component (seperate, with a crossover) speakers.
jimbob-mcgrew
13-07-08, 02:39 AM
ah hees rigged a sub allready, i didnt read thread.
yeh in that case man, like dan says.. some componets up front with the sub in the back and youll get a nice balance of treble, mid and bass.
trying to answer the previous question again, with a slight **** up in brain function, i cant really help that much as ive only had a pair of pioneer components positioned in a custom made parcel shelf that was horrible and bowed like a banana shortly after it was fitted, they sounded quiet and crap at high volume.
i remember seeing some on the display boards at halfords. i was ****ing about with a couple of the componets to see which was better and i remember a pair of infinity's that sounded superior over the rest, even over some of the 6x9's they had, but at the time they were a fair bit more than the other speakers, on or just shy of the £100 mark if i remeber, but if youve got the cash to splash, there good quality.
some people prefer the split design where youve got the mids in the door cards and seperate trebles either next to it or at the dash ends, i prefer the single component design myself with the mid and treble in one, the infinitys were like that.
some people like to get there sub thumpin and let the components do what they want, i think its better to see what the components say and fine tune the sub so youve got a good blend of levels,
Nice one lads, I may go off to Halfords and see what they have. Got a mate pretty well up on this sorta thing that I aint spoken to in a while so I may go and see what he says about wiring and getting all the Amp settings right.
1.6 8v turbo nova
13-07-08, 12:17 PM
http://www.theloudest.co.uk/.
1. This site has everything to offer.. used to have some of the 2000 watt each 6x9's in my other car. And they give bass like a sub, really really good quality.
2. In my new nova, theres 300 watt pioneer door speakers in the back, and 2 little jbl's molded into the front door cards. With a sony 1200watt sub in the boot.
Set up 1- good quality low freq but distorted high freq.
set up 2- good quality hi freq and nice bass.
having the two i'd say i prefer the 2nd set up, as its cheaper and sounds better :)
just depends on if you want a sound system for you to hear or the next town :P
NovaLad
13-07-08, 12:19 PM
Don't get anything from loudest.com.
They lie about the power ratings on their products etc..
My amp from them lasted 24 hours then set on fire in my boot.
They are dangerous.
I know a few other people that have had problems with them.
Go on http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/ they will tell you how cr4p they are!
jimbob-mcgrew
13-07-08, 02:37 PM
set fire in your boot ! **** !
1.6 8v turbo nova
13-07-08, 03:39 PM
o.O i had mine for ages, and so has my mate. Just ordered another pair for 70 quid :)
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