OHC 8V 1300 to 1400 Engine conversion - Looking for info

[tothemark]

If the original engine number is present, block wont have been decked.

iirc std 1.3 inlets valves are 33mm, I run 38mm inlets and 31mm exhaust in my 1.3 SR ported head

Will need to have a think about clearances with the cam, are you running solid lifters? I suspect there is enough clearance

Yah, solid lifters for sure, did you have to enlarge the valve pockets in the 1200 pistons to accommodate your bigger valves ?

Ill check for an engine number, must admit i havent seen one, so whats the best way to measure the deck ? i dont have a haynes so dont know the original height either.

The c14se head looks like its had 1mm off it dropping from a 21cc to 16cc combustion.
With my 1300 head at 13cc its had a very generous 1mm off as well.

[Royston]

I did enlarge the diameter of the pockets on my 1.3 so that they were @ 1mm larger than the valves.

What is the engine to be used for?

[tothemark]

Had a look at the two blocks, the spare red block still has part of a stamp on it see link :



so i am presuming it's original form, possibly bore out +50 as it came with a set of spare pistons, had to enclose a photo of them to show the level of butchering thats been done to them (not by me) Black and decker special.

[tothemark]

This is the butchering



Anyway the main race block i want to use looks like its been decked ;





If anyone has the block sizes and where the measurement is taken from it will be a great help to me.

Many thx TTM

[Royston]

The only way you can assess is to refit the crank an pistons and measure, if possible. (will need a depth micrometer, could get away with feeler gauges and straight edge)

Is there a max limit for piston protrusion above the deck height?

The spare engine I built for my second sport ended up with the pistons being @ 15 thou above the deck height. (was @ 25 thou below before decking, std unmachined block with engine number present)

[tothemark]

The only way you can assess is to refit the crank an pistons and measure, if possible. (will need a depth micrometer, could get away with feeler gauges and straight edge)

Is there a max limit for piston protrusion above the deck height?

The spare engine I built for my second sport ended up with the pistons being @ 15 thou above the deck height. (was @ 25 thou below before decking, std unmachined block with engine number present)

hi Royston,

I suppose the max height is determined by the compression i want, dont want it to be more than 11 to 11.5 cr max.

I have a spare 1300 rod that i will machine out the gudgeon slightly to allow a new piston to be built onto it which will facilitate easy removal later and then build the engine/s up and work out the figures, check clearance and valve pocket sizing etc.

Now just have to wait for the pistons that a mate is picking up whilst on holiday abroad, i hope he isnt flying easyjet..

TBC

TTM

[tothemark]

I didnt fancy sitting around so I have done a measurement on the basis that the red block with the engine vin code is a good template for measuring the original deck height of a standard block.
Measuring from both sides of the bearing carrier to the top of the block i have a difference, in that the race block is 1mm lower, i think its pretty safe to assume thats what its been decked by in order to make some further calcs at this stage.

1300 head 35/29 inlet outlet red block standard
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/29.7 CR 11.747
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/30.22 CR 12.122

C14SE head 38/33 inlet outlet red block standard
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/32.7 CR 10.66
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/33.22 CR 11.02

1300 head 35/29 inlet outlet race block
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/28.7 CR 12.18 allowing for 1mm decking
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/29.22 CR 12.53 allowing for 1mm decking

C14SE head 38/33 inlet outlet race block
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/31.7 CR 11.00 allowing for 1mm decking
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/32.22 CR 11.37 allowing for 1mm decking

This has been a good exercise to determine a starting point as to what fits with what, bearing in mind i had no history of the parts i have.

Looks like the the highlighted options are the two configurations i can build, not too happy with 11.74, but its a really nicely worked head, so i dont want to discard it.

Are there any thicker head gaskets (thicker than 6.3mm) that i can use, i presume the Payen is 6.3mm, to bring the compression down on my 1300 head configuration ?

Many thanks
TTM

[Royston]

I have my original 1.3 sport block, and head, I could take measurements for you, also I don't live too far away, you could call with your parts and compare side by side, that's another option.

Compressed head gasket I have measured is 1.3mm thk, (6.3mm" area)

[Balley]

I didnt fancy sitting around so I have done a measurement on the basis that the red block with the engine vin code is a good template for measuring the original deck height of a standard block.
Measuring from both sides of the bearing carrier to the top of the block i have a difference, in that the race block is 1mm lower, i think its pretty safe to assume thats what its been decked by in order to make some further calcs at this stage.

1300 head 35/29 inlet outlet red block standard
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/29.7 CR 11.747
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/30.22 CR 12.122

C14SE head 38/33 inlet outlet red block standard
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/32.7 CR 10.66
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/33.22 CR 11.02

1300 head 35/29 inlet outlet race block
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/28.7 CR 12.18 allowing for 1mm decking
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 13cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/29.22 CR 12.53 allowing for 1mm decking

C14SE head 38/33 inlet outlet race block
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.4, swept volume of 1200cc std =348.90/31.7 CR 11.00 allowing for 1mm decking
Gasket 6.3mm, chamber 16cc, Piston crown 10.92 swept volume of 1200+.5 =366.35/32.22 CR 11.37 allowing for 1mm decking

This has been a good exercise to determine a starting point as to what fits with what, bearing in mind i had no history of the parts i have.

Looks like the the highlighted options are the two configurations i can build, not too happy with 11.74, but its a really nicely worked head, so i dont want to discard it.

Are there any thicker head gaskets (thicker than 6.3mm) that i can use, i presume the Payen is 6.3mm, to bring the compression down on my 1300 head configuration ?

Many thanks
TTM

Could you not use a decompression plate, or is a there some kind of multi layer steel gasket available you could use?

[tothemark]

I have my original 1.3 sport block, and head, I could take measurements for you, also I don't live too far away, you could call with your parts and compare side by side, that's another option.

Compressed head gasket I have measured is 1.3mm thk, (6.3mm" area)

Thx for the offer Royston, im sure my red block is standard, my crank is out so i measured from the main bearing carrier, cant remember the figures but will do again.

Hi Balley, id love to have a Cometic 1.7mm head gasket but they only seem to do them for a 16v, a compression plate thx for jogging me on that ive just emailed profileman on ebay as his 3mm ally one would allow me to get 11.0 on each engine just by swapping the piston configurations - now that would be a result ! Fingers crossed he does one, i'll let you know.