Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 56

Thread: *INFO* 1600 8v Turbo - What I used

  1. #1
    Senior User Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    26,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default *INFO* 1600 8v Turbo - What I used

    1600 8v Turbo.

    It gets asked almost weekly. Lots want to know about it, lots contemplate it, an TBH its not really that hard doing it. Its the "being bothered to finish it" and I simply CBA after 2 years of messing LOL!

    This is exactly what I used to do mine*

    *Bolted it together, but never ran it, so fook knows if it would have worked or not...

    From top of engine down.

    Spacer Plate:

    Lowers engine compression so the added boost doesnt make swiss cheese outta the pistons.

    Where from: http://www.ferriday.co.uk/cnc/decomp...n_plates.shtml

    Phone them ^^ for your requirements, this thread isnt a calculation page for compression ratios, contact them & discuss your requirements, hes a very friendly chap.

    I opted for a 1.3mm thick plate, cant remember off my head what the CR worked out to be but it was deemed "safe" regardless. Last time i spoke to them it was a 2 week wait & £107 + postage.

    Which Charger:

    Big factor, to big & it will foul the rad, to small & well, why bother (physical size) Also AR & Trim size, to big an it'll lag like fook, to small an well actually smallest is like a T2 & there pretty damn good!

    DONT use a low blow Diesel blower, there on a diesel motor for a reason.

    A T2, T25 maybe even a T3? I opted for a T25 from a SAAB 9000 Carlsson Turbo with @ 12 odd PSi max boost out the box (that max without tampering with it BTW).

    DONT be tempted by cheap chargers, there probably fcuked! Rebuild kits are cheap, but as i found out, taking a charger to bits can be fiddly for some one with idle thumbs...

    Bigger is better to an extent, BUT to big an the actuator arm rams into the back of the rad, there will more then like be no room AT ALL for the standard engine fan.

    Where from: Mine was sourced from a SAAB breakers via eBay. Cost me £80 with 6 months garantee that is does "work"?

    Exhaust Manifold:

    The bit you really really need! You might get lucky an get your hands on an old Courtenay Turbo item, realistically, dont bank on it. Choices are (limited)...

    "Log manifold" ala HondaTech stylee. DIY Civic/CRX turbo people have had superb results with these belive it or not!! BUT you need welding skills, here you basically weld a load of cast steel pipe sections together an mate them to a 8v flange borrowed from an old 4-1 manifold:



    Or you can chop up a 4-1 manifold, which I also started, an this like most things, I got bored of rather quick (here my half @rsed mock up - dont use Gasless MiG either):



    You can also use an MPi cast iron manifold with a funky cast iron adapter used for 200SX turbo upgrades, with a bit of machine work it does work:





    Where from: SPi manifold, FOC from Adam of here. Cast steel parts came in at about £30 delivered from a gas piping specailist i found on google. Second hand FUBAR 4-1 approx say £30?? Cast Iron adapter I got from eBay America for about £55 & had £20 worth of milling work done to it so it bolts straight into a SPi manifold.

    Dont forget, you'll need all the gaskets aswell, manifold to charger, elbow to charger, manifold to head etc etc.

    Downpipe & elbow:

    I used a T25, so needed a T2 series elbow. Mine was taken from a R5 GTT, cost £20 +postage an some late night eBay bidding. Bolts straight onto the charger. (gasket needed here - about £2)

    For the downpipe, I opted for a Fiesta RS Turbo item as there slightly longer then the R5 version (I had both an measured them) longer the better (ask your mum - she'll verify that) but if its to long its easier to shorten then lengthen....

    (For this excercise here's my rough as @ss holes demonstration) SAAB charger, bolted to Renault elbow, bolted to Ford downpipe, roped onto an E16 short block. You get the idea.....



    Where from: eBay, price varies massively! Anything from £10 to say £50 + postage costs.

    Dont forget! Once its all bolted up & into the shell, you will need to lengthen or shorten the downpipe aswell as connect it upto the exhaust system.

    This is where it gets tricky, as there is NO room at all for the oil filter.....

    Oil Filter Relocation:

    I had to as I had no choice but to do this to forward progess....

    Basically, the hot side of the charger would have been wedged about an inch into my oil filter if I didnt.

    Mocal, there your best friends for this!! You cant get a small block 8v relocation kit....or can you?? Yes. You can, as I had one & it fitted fine! I found a shop on eBay selling SEH/NE ones, emailed him asking if he can supply one for a small block 8v, an yes he could, so yes he did.

    Where from: eBay @ £118 + postage IIRC

    Last edited by Mike; 09-01-10 at 12:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior User Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    26,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cont....

    Oil Feed & Drain:

    Oil Feed:

    The next pain in the rectum to the saga of pain in the bums I had whilst doing this....super wickedly integral part of the build. Chargers are cooled by oil syphoned from the oil that lubricates the rest of the engine.

    Some say "drill & tap a take off from the block....". Yea asif, theres NO NEED. Off the shelf parts from Ford fit GM 8v pumps. You know how I know that?? Because I fcuking done it with some advice from (insert username here when you find it?) the guy with the YBT 4x4 Nova.

    From left to right:

    S/S Braided Sierra/Escort Cosworth oil feed hose for 2 series chargers.
    Escort RS Turbo oil feed take off.
    Escort RS Turbo oil pressure sensor.
    Nova E16SE oil pressure sensor.



    Holy fcuk batman the Ford part fits the Nova oil pump! Problem solved for £10.



    Now all you need is the various fittings to bolt the S/S hose into the charger, luckily my charger already had them when I bought it. Win.

    Oil Drain:

    Now, this is a little easier, but not if that makes sense. This needs to go directly back into the sump. As high up in the sump as possible, near enough where the sump gasket it!

    You can simply braze or weld a 12mm or so diameter pipe straight into the sump & connect it via a oil/fuel resistant hose to the outlet on the bottom of the charger. Or use an Escort Cosworth cast steel drain pipe with the Cosworth 45 degree rubber hose. Altho these are mega hard to come by as the hose splits as standard on most Cosworth motors.

    (No pics of this at the minute. EDIT: Cant find pic but will add one as ive still got the parts)

    Where from:

    http://www.rscosworthbreakers.co.uk/

    If your willing to pay their prices they'll help you out no end, take a look around the site too, its cool as fook!!

    eBay:

    S/S hose was about £40, managed to get 1 RST fitting for £10 & another few spare for £5 a peice.

    Cosworth drain pipe was a rare find at about £15 or so.

    Intercooler:

    Works on the same principal as the vehicles radiator, but its filled full of pressurised air "pumped" from the red hot turbo. The intercooler "cools" the air by the same principal a rad cools the water basically.

    I opted for a "twin pass" for ease of plumbing it up.

    Ala:



    Only reason being, both inlet & outlet are on the same side which makes its mega easy to pipe up the charger (One pipe above engine mount, one pipe under it) I mounted ,y charger backwards, so a silicone hose would be infront of the filter relocation head as oppose to a red hot exhaust downpipe thus needing a twin pass cooler to make it even easier to plumb in.

    Other types of traditioanl IC can be used, but bear in mind the more bends in the pipework, the higher the overall pressure drop is. The charger could make say 10psi at the impellor, yet only 9psi is reaching the throttle body (for example)



    You'd never know....



    I also opted for intercooler spray kit as the I/C was nearly touching the rad...but thats another story....for another thread.....

    Where from: Cant remember....might have been eBay again? Cost about £140 or something stupid thought.

    Fuelling:

    No juice, no boost. Its as simple as that.

    To little & its SNAFU, to much an er well, its SNAFU!!

    Moneys the limiting factor here. At time of build I had a 3 bed detached house, 3 cars plus this (so 4) 2 kids & was trying to get my business off the ground (part reason why I gave up). So I went cheap skate & got a rising rate fuel pressure regulator.

    Basically you plumb a fly off boost line into it this thing & for every +1 PSi boost you make, it gives you +1 fuel PSi. Apparently this way is "cowboy" though.

    This NEEDS to be mounted AFTER the OE FPR for it to work sucessfully (IIRC anyway??) if its mounted prior to the OE reg, the OE reg will "limit" its max flow, thus it'll be useless. E16SE standard FPR is 2.5 bar or 36.2psi (I added a V6 3.0 bar FPR to my rail just because.)

    I opted for quite a posh billet aluminium one with a glycerine filled gauge so you can visually monitor fuel PSi. A remote Fuel PSi gauge mounted onto the exterior side of the scuttle panel in driver view might also be a good idea to monitor it from in car whilst on move (my eventual plan)

    Toyota 7MGTE Rising Rate FPR



    Essentially you have:

    OE fuel line in
    Positive boost line in
    FPR fuel line out to rail

    Where from:

    Cant remember. Ive seen them on eBay, Demon Tweeks, Burton Power etc etc. Cost varies from about £100 to like £300!

    Recommendations are - SARD & Rotrex. (Rotrex is common in US for S/C'd Civic's, heard nothing but good things about them!)

    Other options:

    There are plently other avenues of exploration for fuelling on a 1600T. Megasquirt/Megajolt/Emerald etc etc. Then the bigger moneys variants such as OMEX/MBE etc. I know next to nothing about these management systems so dont even ask......

    Other:

    Dump valves. Yes by all means fit one to stop the charger stalling when letting off throttle (not that it will anyway....). I had a Escort Cosworth Grp A one as I had it lying around. (My advice is dont use one of these on a road car, a genuine one is very high pitched - unless mine was broke)

    Intercooler piping. Get yourself a random generic "hard pipe" kit off eBay for about £60 or get some proper tasty pipes made up by a fabricator. Less bends & shortest route the better!

    Injectors. Bigger injectors from a bigger cc engine aint worth it. Unless you some how manage to hit like 200 horse (which I doubt but not ultimatly impossible)

    Engine health. If your motors old, millenium falcon milage, dont expect it to last long. Meltdown will come...

    Boost pressure. Dont go silly with it. From all the research I done 2 years ago, about 14 PSi I *think* was deemed "more then bloody enough for an E16SE!" A conservative 10PSi maybe? 14PSi could potentialy be enough to make about 170/80bhp ATF.
    Last edited by Mike; 09-01-10 at 12:48 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior User Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    26,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Cont....

    The last bit:

    If youve got this far, collected all manner of random parts & sh1t, have a half built engine or what ever then fair play to you.

    The info I've put up, the parts I used, the way in which I done what I did took 2 years, a bit of planning, plenty of internet research & countless damn hours just to form the basis of a turbocharged small block 8v from which I could get running, get tested & then work further into improving it.

    Its not new ground as such, far from it really. Altho a complete, sucessful & worthwhille home built 1600T motor is quite something. I only know of one sucessful story (one DIY build that is).

    Ok, so the likes of you "money no object" type people might look an think "crude as you like" but the way I see it is, all I ever originally set out to acheive was a basis on which to build upon, get some info together & show the mases that ask weekly. 70% of which I'd like to think I achieved, the other 30% Ill leave upto you lot reading this.

    Disclaimer.

    This thread is information ONLY. Anyone wishing to perform modifications like this to there own vehicle IS doing so at there own risk.
    Myself, PNG Club nor anyone of mine or PNG Club's associates take blame for any potental outcome resulting from the use/misuse of the information contain within this document.

    Happy days.

    PNG Calender shot - January 2008



    E16SE & F13CR



    Mike was here 2010.
    Last edited by Mike; 09-01-10 at 12:51 AM.

  4. #4
    Club Member Club Member Plug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Dawlish, Devon
    Posts
    8,672
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    some good information there, not that im going to be turboing a lump yet, but its popping up more and more in mechanical.

    have some rep must spread it about
    Formally Known as Gsi_Jimbo, New name No Idea

    my project / my Daily / New track slag project

  5. #5
    Senior User Count Vaux Alot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Bedfordshire/Hampshire
    Posts
    4,961
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Very informative Mike and respect for being bothered to firstly do the research and secondly share it with every one.

  6. #6
    User Club Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    next to the speakers
    Posts
    1,318
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    +rep

    All the info I'm after all in one place! Good honest write up too, thank you.

  7. #7
    User
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Stamford, Lincs
    Posts
    448
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    +rep really good and clear info

  8. #8
    Club Member Club Member comptoncj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Biggleswade Builds: Flame red GSI
    Posts
    1,828
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Really good info, I'm starting my build as soon as the engine arrives +rep
    H27 ODW nova GSI
    B333XYP nova hutchinsons cabriolet

  9. #9
    User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    593
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    holy **** mate, 2 years! i did mine in a matter of weeks and i thought i was slow! great fun to drive though!!!!!

  10. #10
    User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    593
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ps, you need to watch where you put the oil return, if the turbo sits too low down the oil back feeds and will cause the oil seals in the turbo to blow (especially when using a big turbo on the cast manifold)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •