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andrew1988
05-10-08, 09:43 PM
Im currently reading "four stroke performance tuning" by a.graham bell. Its a good book (if anyone cares?).
Anyway, in the book it mentions re-programming ecus already available that can easily be modified. I really like the idea of this but the subject is very lightly touched upon in the book. I have a c/x16xe that i want to fit into a nova and i believe re-programming an ecu would be a cheaper option than buying aftermarket management. Can anyone shed any light with management in c/x16xe's? I know the ecu pretty much cant be re-programmed.
The reason i say c/x16xe is that it is an x16xe wired up as a c16 running c16 management
The book mentions a delco '808' and other gm ecus but non of which make sense to me in there availability of which vehicles they originate from?
Any help with either use of these ecus or tips on aftermarket management would be appreciated
Andrew

The Simps
06-10-08, 12:25 AM
The way I understand it is they have to be unlocked as such to access the information that has to be changed.

For example, on a CLET things like the EDS/EVO chips send false signals to the ecu to trick it into thinking something else is happening. Whereas onhe newer ZLET, Courtenays are unable to unlock the ecu and change the parameters on the ecu giving similar features to aftermarket management.

Stuart
06-10-08, 09:05 AM
if there is one thing that GM are good at, its locking down their ECU's. I dont know of many/any other manufacturer that goes to such lengths!!

Even the modern GM engine maps are crap that are supposedly done properly lol.

Its far easier to get an aftermarket ECU and have it setup to suit the engine. PLUS if you ever feel like it you can sell it on and nonly lose about 25% of its value, whereas a remap wont sell for anymoney at all ;)

meritlover
06-10-08, 09:14 AM
yes i agree with Sturat. junk it and fit programmingable engine management. youl learn far more, hold its value or can be used on the next project) and is nearly infinately adjustable. many remaps for std ECUs are limited to the extents they can be adjusted.

Stuart
06-10-08, 09:23 AM
. many remaps for std ECUs are limited to the extents they can be adjusted.

I wouldnt even go as far to say that they are that good either...
I'm currently "mapping" several different engines with the same ECU/software and its well within their capablilties to do even more complex work so its not like OEM ecu's are crap, its just the remappers havent got a sodding clue lol

andrew1988
06-10-08, 10:30 AM
Cheers. So which aftermarket management would be best suited to the c16xe? Or even the best value management?

Stuart
06-10-08, 10:44 AM
as ever with aftermarket managemetn choices... Pick your mapper then pick what they prefer to use, garuntees best results per £ spent at that establishment.

Best value would be Megasquirt but thats hugely un supported by the mapping world so you need to DIY it, not the end of the world as it will teach you loads but if you arent capable then its gonna be costly.

Probably one of the better options is to find a 2nd hand DTA EXP48 ECU as they have been superceeded with a newer one so prices should be lowish and there is TONS of mapping support for DTA (plus its a piece of piss to DIY too)

meritlover
06-10-08, 01:46 PM
I wouldnt even go as far to say that they are that good either...
I'm currently "mapping" several different engines with the same ECU/software and its well within their capablilties to do even more complex work so its not like OEM ecu's are crap, its just the remappers havent got a sodding clue lol

agreed,
depends on what ecu you are calibrating. older ones have poor resolution which creates problems with running high power. for instance, if you need to increase the injector size to run higher HP, the idle and low RPM/load sites are almost useless because the interpolation between the sites is to great. this gives you poor power and torque everywhere.
whilst its great for peak HP bragging or jacking off over a dyno number, it makes a poorly drivable car with crap fuel consumption and struggles to pass emissions regs. Same problem exists with timing sites.

another problem is that when the base timing is taken from the distributor, the total advance available is far less than you would get from your own set up as you run into problems with cross firing (if using a distributor) or even with out one, the timing just fails to advance any further and falling off the end of the OE pick up

you arnt able to use many OE ECUs for tuning as many are ranged to a MAP sensor about 1bar absolute and cant measure positive pressure without getting scared.

same can be said for AFMs that go out of range.

meritlover
06-10-08, 01:47 PM
Cheers. So which aftermarket management would be best suited to the c16xe? Or even the best value management?

what are you planning on doing?

Stuart
06-10-08, 01:50 PM
all out PCM's (bar the diesel ones) have clipped MAP inputs to prevent (lol) you from boosting the engines.... such a shame as the engines and software copes really well with boost (aslong as the ECU hasnt got to control it). We hard coded the MAP transfer function too so that you cant even get round it that way (oops did I accidentally change it for someone... bad me!!!)

andrew1988
06-10-08, 04:24 PM
what are you planning on doing?

Planning on building a c16xe nova track car. Basically aiming for as wide a power band as possible with a peak of around 150bhp but unsure of what power figures to expect. Its really a big learning exercise for me, firstly for putting all the theory of university into practice and then learning to drive on the track at a good pace.

meritlover
06-10-08, 04:26 PM
in that case you wont need anything fancy. just something that controls fuel and spark, with Alpha-N or MAP load sensing, even your most basic ecu will do that.

andrew1988
06-10-08, 04:44 PM
Basic OEM ecu or basic aftermarket ecu? Again sorry for being such a novice lol

Adam
06-10-08, 04:57 PM
Basic aftermarket. Most OEM ecu's are much more complex/have more features than some aftermarket systems

What kind of engine spec? you can easily get 130ish hp from a 1.6 16v without touching the std ecu

andrew1988
06-10-08, 05:12 PM
Id like around 150-160. But need to research what parts and methods to use. What have others done to their 1.6 16 valves and what power figures are they achieving?

meritlover
06-10-08, 05:13 PM
youl need to bin the OE manifold/plenum and either make or buy a better one.

or bin it altogether and fit throttle bodies and suitable injectors.

Adam
06-10-08, 05:24 PM
For that sort of power,throttle bodies.

andrew1988
06-10-08, 05:27 PM
Definately cant afford thottle bodies unless someone wants to sell me them cheap?? Already got a dbilas inlet but was just thinking, is the lower half of the inlet restrictive. Would it be a good idea to mod the lower inlet for a direct route rather than the curved lower half? Does this make sense?

meritlover
06-10-08, 05:38 PM
no its not too bad, its more less straight into the head. your limited modifying it because of the bulkhead, throttle bodies is the only way round this.